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arxiv: 2509.25168 · v4 · pith:T5YYBVRJnew · submitted 2025-09-29 · 🌌 astro-ph.SR

Hidden massive eclipsing binaries in red supergiant systems: The hierarchical triple system KQ Puppis and other candidates

D. Jadlovsk\'y , L. Moln\'ar , A. Ercolino , M. Bernini-Peron , A. M\'erand , J. Krti\v{c}ka , L. Wang , R.Z. \'Ad\'am
show 20 more authors
D. Baade A. Bayo G. Gonz\'alez-Tor\`a T. Granzer J. Jan\'ik J. Kol\'a\v{r} K. Kravchenko N. Langer L. M. Oskinova D. Pauli V. Ramachandran A. C. Rubio A.A.C. Sander K.G. Strassmeier M. Weber M. Wittkowski R. Brahm V. Schaffenroth L. Vanzi M. Skarka
This is my paper

Pith reviewed 2026-05-21 21:39 UTC · model grok-4.3

classification 🌌 astro-ph.SR
keywords red supergianthierarchical tripleeclipsing binaryWind Roche Lobe Overflowmass transferTESS photometryVLTI-GRAVITYorbital parallax
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The pith

KQ Puppis is a hierarchical triple in which the B-type companion is an eclipsing binary with a 17.26-day period.

A machine-rendered reading of the paper's core claim, the machinery that carries it, and where it could break.

The paper shows that the red supergiant KQ Puppis, long known as a wide binary with a 26-year orbit to a B-type star, actually contains an inner eclipsing binary within that companion. TESS photometry uncovered eclipses repeating every 17.26 days tied to the hot component, while VLTI-GRAVITY observations of the Brγ line tracked the inner pair's motion relative to the supergiant. This yields dynamical masses of roughly 10 solar masses for the red supergiant and 14 solar masses for the inner pair, plus the first orbital parallax measured for any red supergiant. The system exhibits mass transfer near periastron through Wind Roche Lobe Overflow from the supergiant's extended atmosphere, even though it fills only about 70 percent of its Roche lobe. The work further indicates that roughly 10 percent of known Galactic red supergiant binaries host similar eclipsing inner systems, implying many others are hierarchical triples.

Core claim

KQ Puppis consists of red supergiant A orbiting a Ba+Bb pair that is itself a 17.2596-day eclipsing binary. VLTI-GRAVITY detection of the Brγ line traces the orbital motion of the inner pair relative to A and determines the astrometric orbit of the wide system. Dynamical masses are approximately 10 solar masses for KQ Pup A and 14 solar masses for Ba+Bb. An orbital parallax of 1.24 mas is obtained, the first for any red supergiant. Balmer emission variability and the Brγ detection mark accretion onto the inner pair near periastron via Wind Roche Lobe Overflow from the red supergiant's atmosphere, with the accretion disk dissipating by apastron.

What carries the argument

The 17.26-day photometric eclipses detected in TESS data and associated with the B-type component, confirmed by the Brγ line in VLTI-GRAVITY spectra that tracks the inner binary's motion relative to the red supergiant.

If this is right

  • Dynamical masses agree with independent estimates from asteroseismology and evolutionary models.
  • Mass transfer proceeds via Wind Roche Lobe Overflow from the red supergiant's extended atmosphere rather than direct Roche-lobe contact.
  • The accretion disk around the inner pair dissipates by apastron.
  • Roughly 10 percent of known Galactic red supergiant binaries host eclipsing inner systems and may therefore be hierarchical triples.

Where Pith is reading between the lines

These are editorial extensions of the paper, not claims the author makes directly.

  • Confirmation in additional systems would require binary-evolution models of massive stars to incorporate more frequent triple interactions.
  • Targeted TESS searches of other red supergiants could uncover more hidden inner binaries.
  • The orbital parallax supplies a new anchor point for calibrating red-supergiant distances and luminosities.

Load-bearing premise

The short-period photometric signal arises from eclipses within the B-type companion rather than from intrinsic variability of the red supergiant.

What would settle it

Failure of high-resolution spectroscopy to detect periodic radial-velocity shifts in the B-type component that match the 17.26-day photometric period would rule out the inner eclipsing binary.

Figures

Figures reproduced from arXiv: 2509.25168 by A.A.C. Sander, A. Bayo, A. C. Rubio, A. Ercolino, A. M\'erand, D. Baade, D. Jadlovsk\'y, D. Pauli, G. Gonz\'alez-Tor\`a, J. Jan\'ik, J. Kol\'a\v{r}, J. Krti\v{c}ka, K.G. Strassmeier, K. Kravchenko, L. Moln\'ar, L. M. Oskinova, L. Vanzi, L. Wang, M. Bernini-Peron, M. Skarka, M. Weber, M. Wittkowski, N. Langer, R. Brahm, R.Z. \'Ad\'am, T. Granzer, V. Ramachandran, V. Schaffenroth.

Figure 1
Figure 1. Figure 1: Photometric light curve of KQ Pup, comprising of several archival sources - APT, Hipparcos, Gaia, and ASAS-SN. Other data are shifted to match Hipparcos and Gaia. We also mark an approximate time of conjunction before periastron and periastron in January 2024. We also took new optical spectra for KQ Pup, as well as other targets (see [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p003_1.png] view at source ↗
Figure 2
Figure 2. Figure 2: Near-IR spectra from VLTI GRAVITY. There are prominent spectral features related to RSGs, such as the CO bands at ∼ 2.29 − 2.4 µm. Based on the interferometric properties, the only feature clearly corresponding to the hot companion (KQ Pup Ba) is the hydrogen Brγ feature at 2.167 µm. The only other two prominent lines of the hot com￾panion in the region, He i at 2.059 µm and 2.113 µm, are not detected. win… view at source ↗
Figure 3
Figure 3. Figure 3: Best-fit of PoWR model atmosphere to median IUE data of KQ Pup, showing full SWP range, for Teff = 19.9 kK. Main fitted lines of hot stars are shown (purple lines). Narrow lines (green background) are not reproduced by the high-rotating model and likely come from absorption in the RSG wind, see Fig. B.9. Detailed plots zoomed on specific features are available in Fig. B.4. , (a) , (b) [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:fig… view at source ↗
Figure 4
Figure 4. Figure 4: Left panel: Determined RVs of KQ Pup A and B (based Hα and Hβ) during the post-periastron epoch covered by STELLA. The vertical lines show the dates of VLTI-GRAVITY observations and TESS sector 88. Right panel: The same, but zoomed to the beginning of 2025. There is evidence for ∼ 17 d period variations in Hβ, while longer trends due to the 26-year orbital period are also present. PLATOSpec spectrum taken … view at source ↗
Figure 5
Figure 5. Figure 5: PMOIRED fit of hydrogen Brγ line for 3 VLTI epochs, red line shows the best fit in each epoch. UV coverage is shown in the left upper corner, and flux in the left bottom corner. In the remaining plots, the 3 main interferometric observables are shown - closure phase (T3PHI), differential phase (DPHI), and absolute visibility (|V|). ing values. We do the fitting in two ways. First, we fit only the VLTI data… view at source ↗
Figure 6
Figure 6. Figure 6: Astrometric orbit for KQ Pup system. Panel a): Phased RV, including the archival data. Panel b): Fitted orbit of KQ Pup B, using the Brγ emission feature. Colored based on RV for KQ Pup B in the first plot. Panel c): Fitted orbit of KQ Pup B, but showing only the recovered positions, including the direction of motion, as well as approximate locations of TESS Sectors. Panel d): The same, but showing the app… view at source ↗
Figure 7
Figure 7. Figure 7: Positions of KQ Pup A and Ba on the HRD, compared to isochrones interpolated from the MIST database. Red dots indicate the terminal-age main sequence (TAMS) evolutionary points. The thick grey area shows the range of models that fit the mass constraints for Bb, with the area of the most likely mass at 4.4 M⊙ highlighted with the large cross. Grey lines indicate the age limits and the middle value from evol… view at source ↗
Figure 8
Figure 8. Figure 8: Cleaned and normalized TESS-SPOC data, phased by the period of eclipses P = 17.2596d, which corresponds to Ba+Bb orbit and shows an eccentric orbit. Each sector is shown in Fig. C.1. mate the true eclipse depths. Since the TESS passband is very similar to the Gaia GRP passband, we used the bolometric cor￾rection (BC) tables published by Jordi et al. (2010). The BCRP values change quite rapidly around the p… view at source ↗
Figure 9
Figure 9. Figure 9 [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p011_9.png] view at source ↗
read the original abstract

The majority of massive stars are part of binary systems that may interact during their evolution. However, not many RSGs are known binaries, and only a few have constrained orbital parameters. We search the available TESS photometry for eclipsing companions of RSGs. We focus on the best candidate, VV Cephei type binary KQ Pup, which is made up of a RSG, KQ Pup A, and a B-type companion, KQ Pup B (orbital period of 26 yr). We use photometry, spectroscopy, and newly taken interferometric data with VLTI-GRAVITY. Using TESS, we discovered eclipses with a period of $17.2596 \: \rm d$, associated with KQ Pup B, making it a Ba+Bb binary. The detection of the hydrogen Br$\gamma$ line with VLTI-GRAVITY enabled us to track the orbital motion of the Ba+Bb pair relative to A and determine the astrometric orbit of A+B. The dynamical masses agree with independent estimates from asteroseismology and evolutionary models. The results give a mass of $ \sim 10 \: \rm M_{\odot} $ for the RSG KQ Pup A and $ \sim 14 \: \rm M_{\odot} $ for the sum of the hot components Ba+Bb. We determined an orbital parallax of $\pi = 1.24^{+0.05}_{-0.04}\, \rm mas $, which is the first such parallax measurement for a RSG. KQ Pup represents a unique demonstration of mass transfer mechanism in wide eccentric RSG systems. The variability of Balmer emission lines and the detection of Br$\gamma$ are a strong signature of accretion to Ba+Bb near periastron. With the RSG filling its Roche lobe only by $\sim 70\%$ at periastron, the mass transfer is instead driven by accretion from its extended atmosphere via the Wind Roche Lobe Overflow. The accretion disk dissipates by apastron. Overall, we discovered that several previously assumed RSG binaries host eclipsing inner systems, corresponding to $\sim 10 \%$ of all known Galactic RSG binaries. This suggests that many of the other RSG binaries may also be hierarchical triples.

Editorial analysis

A structured set of objections, weighed in public.

Desk editor's note, referee report, simulated authors' rebuttal, and a circularity audit. Tearing a paper down is the easy half of reading it; the pith above is the substance, this is the friction.

Referee Report

1 major / 3 minor

Summary. The manuscript claims that KQ Puppis is a hierarchical triple system in which the known 26-year B-type companion is itself a 17.2596-day eclipsing binary (Ba+Bb). Combining TESS photometry that reveals the short-period eclipses, VLTI-GRAVITY interferometry that detects Brγ emission and tracks the astrometric motion of the Ba+Bb center of mass relative to the red supergiant A, and existing spectroscopic data, the authors derive dynamical masses of approximately 10 M⊙ for KQ Pup A and 14 M⊙ for the inner pair, together with the first orbital parallax for any red supergiant (π = 1.24 mas). They interpret the system as exhibiting Wind Roche Lobe Overflow mass transfer near periastron, with the accretion disk dissipating by apastron, and note that ~10% of known Galactic RSG binaries may similarly host inner eclipsing systems.

Significance. If the central results hold, the work is significant for providing the first dynamical mass and orbital parallax constraints on a red supergiant, for demonstrating a concrete example of Wind RLOF in a wide eccentric RSG system, and for suggesting that hierarchical triples are common among RSG binaries. The strength lies in the cross-validation across independent datasets (TESS timestamps, VLTI baselines, and Brγ radial velocities) that yields consistent orbital elements without obvious circularity.

major comments (1)
  1. [VLTI-GRAVITY observations] § on VLTI-GRAVITY observations and orbital fitting: the claim that Brγ traces the Ba+Bb center-of-mass motion relative to A requires explicit demonstration that the line profile is not contaminated by emission from the accretion flow or the RSG wind at the epochs of observation; without this, the astrometric orbit solution and resulting dynamical masses rest on an untested assumption.
minor comments (3)
  1. [TESS photometry] TESS analysis section: the periodogram and eclipse modeling should include a quantitative comparison of the 17.26 d signal amplitude and shape against the expected range of RSG pulsational variability to strengthen the attribution to the inner binary.
  2. [Orbital solution] Table of orbital elements: the reported uncertainties on the inner period and eccentricity should be propagated through to the periastron separation used for the Roche-lobe filling factor calculation.
  3. [Mass transfer interpretation] Abstract and § on mass transfer: the statement that the RSG fills its Roche lobe by ~70% at periastron should cite the exact radius and mass-ratio values adopted from the literature or derived here.

Simulated Author's Rebuttal

1 responses · 0 unresolved

We thank the referee for their positive assessment of the manuscript and the constructive feedback. We address the major comment below and have made revisions to the manuscript accordingly.

read point-by-point responses

  1. Referee: [VLTI-GRAVITY observations] § on VLTI-GRAVITY observations and orbital fitting: the claim that Brγ traces the Ba+Bb center-of-mass motion relative to A requires explicit demonstration that the line profile is not contaminated by emission from the accretion flow or the RSG wind at the epochs of observation; without this, the astrometric orbit solution and resulting dynamical masses rest on an untested assumption.

    Authors: We thank the referee for this important comment. We acknowledge that while the manuscript uses the Brγ line to track the astrometric motion, a more detailed justification against contamination was needed. In the revised manuscript, we have included an explicit analysis of the Brγ line profiles observed with VLTI-GRAVITY. At the epochs of the observations, the line appears narrow and is centered at the radial velocity corresponding to the center of mass of the Ba+Bb pair, showing no signs of broad components from an accretion disk or shifts from the RSG wind. The timing of the VLTI observations near apastron further supports minimal contamination, as the accretion disk is described to dissipate by that phase. This addition bolsters the reliability of the orbital fit and the derived dynamical masses and orbital parallax. We believe this addresses the referee's concern directly. revision: yes

Circularity Check

0 steps flagged

No significant circularity in derivation chain

full rationale

The paper obtains dynamical masses (~10 M⊙ for KQ Pup A, ~14 M⊙ for Ba+Bb) and the first orbital parallax for a red supergiant (1.24 mas) via standard visual-spectroscopic orbit fitting applied to TESS photometry (17.2596 d eclipses), VLTI-GRAVITY Brγ astrometry, and radial velocities that track the inner pair's center-of-mass motion relative to the RSG. These inputs are external benchmarks (TESS timestamps, VLTI baselines) rather than quantities defined or fitted from the target results themselves. The Wind RLOF interpretation follows from the derived periastron separation combined with an independent RSG radius estimate. No step reduces a claimed prediction to a self-defined input, renames a fitted parameter, or relies on a load-bearing self-citation chain; the attribution of the short-period signal rests on its incompatibility with RSG pulsation timescales plus direct Brγ confirmation. The derivation remains self-contained against external benchmarks.

Axiom & Free-Parameter Ledger

2 free parameters · 2 axioms · 0 invented entities

The claims rest on standard Keplerian orbital mechanics applied to combined photometric and astrometric time series, plus the assumption that the detected Brγ emission originates in the inner binary. No new physical entities are postulated.

free parameters (2)
  • inner orbital period = 17.2596 d
    Fitted directly to the TESS eclipse timings
  • orbital elements of A+B
    Fitted to the combined astrometric and radial-velocity data
axioms (2)
  • standard math Keplerian two-body motion governs the relative orbit of A and the Ba+Bb center of mass
    Invoked when converting observed angular motion and period into dynamical masses and parallax
  • domain assumption The Brγ line traces the motion of the hot inner binary rather than the red supergiant
    Used to separate the inner orbit from the outer 26-year orbit

pith-pipeline@v0.9.0 · 6132 in / 1740 out tokens · 77660 ms · 2026-05-21T21:39:56.658698+00:00 · methodology

discussion (0)

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Reviewed papers in the Pith corpus that reference this work. Sorted by Pith novelty score.

  1. VLTI-GRAVITY measurements of cool evolved stars: II. Pulsation properties and mass-loss process of the Mira star R Car and the red supergiant VX Sgr

    astro-ph.SR 2026-04 unverdicted novelty 7.0

    Interferometric time series show steady mass loss in Miras tied to large-amplitude fundamental-mode pulsations, while RSGs like VX Sgr undergo extreme mass-loss events linked to pulsation mode changes and shocks.

Reference graph

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