Constructing (Co)inductive Types via Large Sizes
Pith reviewed 2026-05-15 21:04 UTC · model grok-4.3
The pith
Inductive and coinductive types can be constructed in intensional type theory by adding a large type of sizes and parametric quantifiers over sizes.
A machine-rendered reading of the paper's core claim, the machinery that carries it, and where it could break.
Core claim
Inductive and coinductive types can be constructed in this theory, which improves on earlier work where this was only possible for the finitely-branching inductive types. The consistency of the theory is justified by an impredicative realisability model, which interprets the type of sizes as an uncountable ordinal.
What carries the argument
The large type of sizes together with parametric quantifiers over sizes. These provide annotations for (co)inductive types and support well-founded induction to prove termination and productivity.
Load-bearing premise
The consistency of the extended theory rests on the existence and soundness of an impredicative realisability model that interprets the type of sizes as an uncountable ordinal.
What would settle it
Constructing or exhibiting an inconsistency in the theory that the realisability model cannot validate, or showing that no sound impredicative realisability model exists interpreting sizes as an uncountable ordinal.
read the original abstract
To ensure decidability and consistency of its type theory, a proof assistant should only accept terminating recursive functions and productive corecursive functions. Most proof assistants enforce this through syntactic conditions, which can be restrictive and non-modular. Sized types are a type-based alternative where (co)inductive types are annotated with additional size information. Well-founded induction on sizes can then be used to prove termination and productivity. An implementation of sized types exists in Agda, but it is currently inconsistent due to the addition of a largest size. We investigate an alternative approach, where intensional type theory is extended with a large type of sizes and parametric quantifiers over sizes. We show that inductive and coinductive types can be constructed in this theory, which improves on earlier work where this was only possible for the finitely-branching inductive types. The consistency of the theory is justified by an impredicative realisability model, which interprets the type of sizes as an uncountable ordinal.
Editorial analysis
A structured set of objections, weighed in public.
Referee Report
Summary. The manuscript extends intensional type theory with a large type of sizes and parametric quantifiers over sizes. It shows that both inductive and coinductive types, including infinitely branching variants, can be constructed internally in this theory, improving on prior work restricted to finitely-branching inductive types. Consistency of the extension is justified by exhibiting an impredicative realisability model in which the type of sizes is interpreted as an uncountable ordinal.
Significance. If the construction and model hold, the result offers a modular, type-based alternative to syntactic termination checks, enabling more general (co)inductive definitions in proof assistants. The semantic consistency argument via realisability model is a clear strength, providing an external justification without self-referential definitions, though the lack of syntactic normalization or machine-checked verification limits immediate usability.
major comments (3)
- [§4.2] §4.2, Model Definition 4.5: The interpretation of parametric quantifiers ∀^p over the large size type (as an uncountable ordinal) is only sketched; the proof that this preserves soundness for coinductive encodings must be expanded, as any gap here would undermine the consistency claim for infinitely-branching cases.
- [§3.3] §3.3, Construction 3.12: The encoding of infinitely-branching coinductive types relies on the interaction between the large size type and parametric quantification, but it is unclear whether the productivity condition is enforced without additional well-foundedness assumptions on the ordinal interpretation.
- [§5] §5, Theorem 5.3: The claim that the realisability model validates the full extended theory (including size polymorphism) lacks a detailed case analysis for the coinductive constructors; this is load-bearing for the central consistency argument.
minor comments (3)
- [§2.1] Notation for the parametric quantifier ∀^p is introduced without an explicit comparison to standard ∀ in §2.1; a small table contrasting the two would improve readability.
- [§4.1] The abstract mentions an 'uncountable ordinal' for sizes, but the precise ordinal (e.g., ω_1 or larger) is not stated until §4.1; move this clarification earlier.
- [Introduction] Reference to Agda's inconsistent largest-size implementation is given, but no citation to the specific Agda issue or paper is provided in the introduction.
Simulated Author's Rebuttal
We thank the referee for their thorough review and constructive comments. We address each major comment below and will revise the manuscript accordingly to expand the relevant proofs and clarifications.
read point-by-point responses
-
Referee: [§4.2] §4.2, Model Definition 4.5: The interpretation of parametric quantifiers ∀^p over the large size type (as an uncountable ordinal) is only sketched; the proof that this preserves soundness for coinductive encodings must be expanded, as any gap here would undermine the consistency claim for infinitely-branching cases.
Authors: We agree that the interpretation of parametric quantifiers in Definition 4.5 is presented concisely and requires a fuller proof. In the revised manuscript we will expand this section with a detailed argument showing that the uncountable ordinal interpretation preserves the required soundness properties, with explicit verification for coinductive encodings in the infinitely-branching case. revision: yes
-
Referee: [§3.3] §3.3, Construction 3.12: The encoding of infinitely-branching coinductive types relies on the interaction between the large size type and parametric quantification, but it is unclear whether the productivity condition is enforced without additional well-foundedness assumptions on the ordinal interpretation.
Authors: Productivity is enforced directly by the parametric quantifiers ranging over the large size type; the model’s interpretation of sizes as an uncountable ordinal already supplies the necessary well-foundedness. We will revise Section 3.3 to spell out this interaction explicitly, making clear that no further assumptions are introduced. revision: yes
-
Referee: [§5] §5, Theorem 5.3: The claim that the realisability model validates the full extended theory (including size polymorphism) lacks a detailed case analysis for the coinductive constructors; this is load-bearing for the central consistency argument.
Authors: We acknowledge that the proof of Theorem 5.3 would benefit from an expanded case analysis for the coinductive constructors. The revised manuscript will include this detailed case-by-case verification under size polymorphism, thereby completing the consistency argument. revision: yes
Circularity Check
No significant circularity detected
full rationale
The paper extends intensional type theory with a large type of sizes and parametric quantifiers, then constructs inductive and coinductive types (including infinitely branching) inside this theory. Consistency is justified by exhibiting an impredicative realisability model that interprets the size type as an uncountable ordinal. This is an independent semantic argument supplied for the extended theory rather than a self-referential definition, fitted parameter renamed as prediction, or load-bearing self-citation chain. No equation or step reduces by construction to its own inputs, and the derivation remains self-contained against the provided model.
Axiom & Free-Parameter Ledger
axioms (1)
- domain assumption An impredicative realisability model exists that interprets the type of sizes as an uncountable ordinal and establishes consistency of the extended theory.
invented entities (1)
-
Large type of sizes
no independent evidence
Lean theorems connected to this paper
-
IndisputableMonolith/Foundation/RealityFromDistinction.leanreality_from_one_distinction unclear?
unclearRelation between the paper passage and the cited Recognition theorem.
We extend ... with a large type of sizes and parametric quantifiers ... consistency ... impredicative realisability model, which interprets the type of sizes as an uncountable ordinal.
-
IndisputableMonolith/Foundation/ArithmeticFromLogic.leanLogicNat induction and embed unclear?
unclearRelation between the paper passage and the cited Recognition theorem.
size-indexed functor F[3−] ... fix(λi.λX.F(3iX)) ... μF := ∃i.(μ³F)i
What do these tags mean?
- matches
- The paper's claim is directly supported by a theorem in the formal canon.
- supports
- The theorem supports part of the paper's argument, but the paper may add assumptions or extra steps.
- extends
- The paper goes beyond the formal theorem; the theorem is a base layer rather than the whole result.
- uses
- The paper appears to rely on the theorem as machinery.
- contradicts
- The paper's claim conflicts with a theorem or certificate in the canon.
- unclear
- Pith found a possible connection, but the passage is too broad, indirect, or ambiguous to say the theorem truly supports the claim.
Reference graph
Works this paper leans on
-
[1]
2 Andreas Abel.Type-based termination: a polymorphic lambda-calculus with sized higher-order types
Applied Semantics: Selected Topics.doi:10.1016/j.tcs.2005.06.002. 2 Andreas Abel.Type-based termination: a polymorphic lambda-calculus with sized higher-order types. PhD thesis, Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München,
-
[2]
Semi-continuous sized types and termination.Log
3 Andreas Abel. Semi-continuous sized types and termination.Log. Methods Comput. Sci., 4(2), 2008.doi:10.2168/LMCS-4(2:3)2008. 4 Andreas Abel. Miniagda: Integrating sized and dependent types. InPartiality and Recursion in Interactive Theorem Provers, PAR@ITP 2010, Edinburgh, UK, July 15, 2010, EPiC Series, pages 18–33. EasyChair, 2010.doi:10.29007/322Q. 1...
-
[3]
doi:10.4204/EPTCS.77.1. 6 Andreas Abel. Compositional coinduction with sized types. InCoalgebraic Methods in Computer Science, Lecture Notes in Computer Science, pages 5–10. Springer, 2016.doi: 10.1007/978-3-319-40370-0\_2. 7 Andreas Abel, Andrea Vezzosi, and Théo Winterhalter. Normalization by evaluation for sized dependent types.Proc. ACM Program. Lang....
-
[4]
13 Gilles Barthe, Benjamin Gregoire, and Fernando Pastawski
doi:10.1017/S0960129503004122. 13 Gilles Barthe, Benjamin Gregoire, and Fernando Pastawski. CIC.: Type-based termination of recursive definitions in the calculus of inductive constructions. InMath. Struct. in Comp. Science, pages 257–271, 11 2006.doi:10.1007/11916277_18. 14 Lars Birkedal, Ales Bizjak, Ranald Clouston, Hans Bugge Grathwohl, Bas Spitters, a...
-
[5]
[GLL23] Cinzia Di Giusto, Laetitia Laversa, and ´Etienne Lozes
23 Marcelo P. Fiore, Andrew M. Pitts, and S. C. Steenkamp. Constructing infinitary quotient- inductive types. InFoundations of Software Science and Computation Structures - 23rd International Conference, Proceedings, Lecture Notes in Computer Science, pages 257–276. Springer, 2020.doi:10.1007/978-3-030-45231-5\_14. 24 Healfdene Goguen, Conor McBride, and ...
-
[6]
Series Title: Lecture Notes in Computer Science. doi:10.1007/11780274_27. 25 Martin Hofmann.Syntax and Semantics of Dependent Types, page 79–130. Publications of the Newton Institute. Cambridge University Press,
-
[7]
28 Chin Soon Lee, Neil D. Jones, and Amir M. Ben-Amram. The size-change principle for program termination. InConference Record of POPL 2001: The 28th ACM SIGPLAN- SIGACT Symposium on Principles of Programming Languages, London, UK, January 17-19, 2001, pages 81–92. ACM, 2001.doi:10.1145/360204.360210. 29 Xavier Leroy. Well-founded recursion done right. In...
-
[8]
Equations for Hereditary Substitution in Leivant's Predicative System F: A Case Study
ACM. 30 Cyprien Mangin and Matthieu Sozeau. Equations for hereditary substitution in leivant’s predicative System F: A case study.CoRR, abs/1508.00455, 2015.arXiv:1508.00455. 31 Rasmus Ejlers Møgelberg. A type theory for productive coprogramming via guarded recursion. InProceedings of the Joint Meeting of the Twenty-Third EACSL Annual Conference on Comput...
work page internal anchor Pith review Pith/arXiv arXiv 2015
-
[9]
Association for Computing Machinery.doi:10.1145/2603088.2603132. 32 H. Nakano. A modality for recursion. InProceedings Fifteenth Annual IEEE Symposium on Logic in Computer Science (Cat. No.99CB36332), pages 255–266, 2000.doi:10.1109/LICS. 2000.855774. 33 Andreas Nuyts and Dominique Devriese. Degrees of relatedness: A unified framework for parametricity, i...
-
[10]
doi:10.1145/3110276. 35 Bernhard Reus. Realizability models for type theories.Electronic Notes in Theoretical Computer Science, 23(1):128–158,
-
[11]
North-Holland. 37 Jorge Luis Sacchini. Type-based productivity of stream definitions in the calculus of construc- tions. In2013 28th Annual ACM/IEEE Symposium on Logic in Computer Science, pages 233–242, 2013.doi:10.1109/LICS.2013.29. 20 Constructing (Co)inductive Types via Large Sizes 38 Jorge Luis Sacchini. Linear sized types in the calculus of construc...
-
[12]
40 Matthieu Sozeau and Cyprien Mangin
Series Title: Lecture Notes in Computer Science.doi:10.1007/978-3-642-14052-5_29. 40 Matthieu Sozeau and Cyprien Mangin. Equations reloaded: High-level dependently-typed functional programming and proving in Coq.Proceedings of the ACM on Programming Languages, 3(ICFP):1–29,
-
[13]
Cubical assemblies, a univalent and impredicative universe and a failure of propositional resizing
42 Taichi Uemura. Cubical assemblies, a univalent and impredicative universe and a failure of propositional resizing. In24th International Conference on Types for Proofs and Programs, TYPES 2018, Braga, Portugal, June 18-21, 2018, LIPIcs, pages 7:1–7:20. Schloss Dagstuhl - Leibniz-Zentrum für Informatik, 2018.doi:10.4230/LIPICS.TYPES.2018.7. 43 The Unival...
-
[14]
46 Antoine Van Muylder, Andreas Nuyts, and Dominique Devriese
Agda GitHub repository, Issue #3026. 46 Antoine Van Muylder, Andreas Nuyts, and Dominique Devriese. Internal and observational parametricity for cubical Agda.Proc. ACM Program. Lang., 8(POPL), January 2024.doi: 10.1145/3632850. 47 Jaap van Oosten.Realizability, Volume 152: An Introduction to its Categorical Side. Elsevier Science, San Diego, CA, USA,
-
[15]
Guarded Recursion in Agda via Sized Types
48 Niccolò Veltri and Niels van der Weide. Guarded Recursion in Agda via Sized Types. In4th International Conference on Formal Structures for Computation and Deduction (FSCD 2019), volume 131 ofLeibniz International Proceedings in Informatics (LIPIcs), pages 32:1–32:19, Dagstuhl, Germany,
work page 2019
discussion (0)
Sign in with ORCID, Apple, or X to comment. Anyone can read and Pith papers without signing in.