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arxiv: 1906.08213 · v1 · pith:ZMANIVJJnew · submitted 2019-06-19 · 🌌 astro-ph.SR

Progress in global helioseismology: a new light on the solar modelling problem and its implications for solar-like stars

G. Buldgen , A. Noels , S. Salmon This is my paper

Pith reviewed 2026-05-25 19:59 UTC · model grok-4.3

classification 🌌 astro-ph.SR
keywords helioseismologysolar modelling problemasteroseismologysolar abundancesstellar interiorsGalactic archaeologyexoplanetology
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The pith

The solar modelling problem remains unsolved and affects asteroseismology of solar-like stars plus Galactic archaeology and exoplanetology.

A machine-rendered reading of the paper's core claim, the machinery that carries it, and where it could break.

The paper reviews how helioseismology used high-quality data from ground networks and space missions together with inversion techniques to determine the Sun's convective envelope position, helium abundance, and internal profiles. The downward revision of solar CNO surface abundances created a mismatch with models, known as the solar modelling problem. New inversions and uncertainty discussions show the issue still awaits a solution more than ten years later, with direct consequences for modeling solar-like stars and fields that rely on precise stellar masses, radii, and ages.

Core claim

Despite early high agreement between solar models and observations, the revised CNO abundances induced a drastic reduction in that agreement, and the solar modelling problem still awaits a solution in the era of space-based photometry missions, carrying significant implications for seismology of solar-like stars on the main sequence and beyond as well as Galactic archaeology and exoplanetology.

What carries the argument

Helioseismic inversion techniques that infer the position of the solar convective envelope, its helium abundance, and radial profiles of thermodynamic quantities from oscillation data.

If this is right

  • Resolution of the solar problem would improve accuracy of models for solar-like stars on the main sequence and beyond.
  • Better stellar parameters from asteroseismology would strengthen results in Galactic archaeology.
  • Improved mass, radius, and age estimates would benefit studies in exoplanetology.
  • The problem underscores uncertainties in stellar interior physics that apply to a wide range of stars.

Where Pith is reading between the lines

These are editorial extensions of the paper, not claims the author makes directly.

  • Proposed solutions such as changes in opacities or mixing may need testing against data from other stars.
  • The discrepancy could point to missing physics in convective overshooting or diffusion that affects multiple stellar types.
  • Future high-precision photometry missions could supply data to distinguish between competing fixes.

Load-bearing premise

The new helioseismic inversions and model comparisons accurately capture the current state of the solar modelling problem without major unaccounted systematic errors in the data or models.

What would settle it

A new inversion or model set that restores full agreement between solar models and observations after incorporating the revised CNO abundances would show the problem has been solved.

Figures

Figures reproduced from arXiv: 1906.08213 by A. Noels, G. Buldgen, S. Salmon.

Figure 1
Figure 1. Figure 1: Metallicity profile of the standard solar models of table 1 including various prescriptions for the transport of chemicals. 3.1 Sound speed inversions We start with classical sound speed inversions, presented in [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p013_1.png] view at source ↗
Figure 2
Figure 2. Figure 2: Left panel: relative squared sound speed differences between standard solar models using var￾ious abundance and opacity tables and helioseismic results. Right panel: relative squared sound speed differences between models including various prescriptions for the mixing of the chemical elements and helioseismic results. 3.2 Entropy proxy inversions In addition to squared adiabatic sound speed, other structur… view at source ↗
Figure 3
Figure 3. Figure 3: Left panel: relative entropy proxy differences between standard solar models using various abundance and opacity tables and helioseismic results. Right panel: relative entropy proxy differences between models including various prescriptions for the mixing of the chemical elements and helioseismic results. lead to an increase of the disagreements with helioseismic results. Overall, this inversion confirms t… view at source ↗
Figure 4
Figure 4. Figure 4: Left panel: Ledoux discriminant differences between standard solar models using various abun￾dance and opacity tables and helioseismic results. Right panel: Ledoux discriminant differences between models including various prescriptions for the mixing of the chemical elements and helioseismic results. This is confirmed by the right panel of [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p016_4.png] view at source ↗
Figure 5
Figure 5. Figure 5: that a similar agreement can be obtained by using the OPLIB opacities in AGSS09 models and that the neon revision also provided a significant improvement of the agreement. This results from the fact that the frequency separation ratios are sensitive to the sound-speed derivative. Hence, they are sensitive to both the temperature and chemical composition gradients and not only to the chemical composition of… view at source ↗
Figure 6
Figure 6. Figure 6: Modification to the opacity profile used in the solar models denoted as ‘P oly’. fκ(T) is the increase in relative opacity applied during the evolution [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p020_6.png] view at source ↗
Figure 7
Figure 7. Figure 7: Upper-left panel: squared adiabatic sound speed inversions for the solar models including a modified mean Rosseland opacity and additional macroscopic mixing. Upper-right: entropy proxy in￾versions for the solar models including a modified mean Rosseland opacity and additional macroscopic mixing. Lower panel: Ledoux discriminant inversions for the solar models including a modified mean Rosseland opacity an… view at source ↗
Figure 8
Figure 8. Figure 8: Comparison between the observed frequency separation ratios and those of the solar models including modified opacity tables and additional macroscopic mixing. Indeed, changes of even a few percent at higher temperatures could significantly affect the frequency separation ratios, as well as the agreement with the helioseismic helium abundance in the convective envelope. Modifications of such amplitude are w… view at source ↗
Figure 9
Figure 9. Figure 9: Gradient of the natural logarithm of temperature with respect to the natural logarithm of pressure for the modified solar models considered in this study. In [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p023_9.png] view at source ↗
Figure 10
Figure 10. Figure 10: Comparison between the observed frequency ratios and those of the 16Cyg A and B models considered in this study. In Buldgen et al. (2016a), we demonstrated that a similar spread in age could also be seen by altering the efficiency of microscopic diffusion. Hence, we can state that modifying the formalism of microscopic diffusion, using the Paquette et al. (1986) approach and considering partial ionization… view at source ↗
Figure 11
Figure 11. Figure 11: Temperature gradient profiles as of function of r/R for the 16Cyg A and B models considered in this study. The extreme impact of the Proffitt and Michaud (1991) parametric approach to turbulent diffusion can also be seen in [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p027_11.png] view at source ↗
Figure 12
Figure 12. Figure 12: Metallicity profiles as of function of r/R for the 16Cyg A and B models considered in this study. change of fundamental parameters such as mass, radius and age, as was noted in Buldgen et al. (2016b). On this matter, the case of 16Cyg is particularly interesting and promising, as both stars form a binary system. This adds another level of constraint on their initial composition and their age, further redu… view at source ↗
Figure 13
Figure 13. Figure 13: Comparison of tu and ρ¯ inversions for 16CygA and B for the models considered in this study. The blue symbols refer to the reference models: ∗ for the standard models, for the models with modified opacity and ♦ for the models including both the opacity modification and turbulent diffusion. For example, measurements of neutrinos fluxes also provide stringent complementary constraints on the temperature of … view at source ↗
Figure 14
Figure 14. Figure 14: Decomposition of the Ledoux discriminant in its thermal and chemical composition gradients contributions for a model built with the GS98 abundances, and other models including modified opacity tables and macroscopic chemical mixing. From [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p047_14.png] view at source ↗
read the original abstract

Since the first observations of solar oscillations, helioseismology has been one of the most successful fields of astrophysics. Data of high quality were obtained through the implementation of networks of ground-based observatories such as the GONG project or the BiSON network, coupled with space-based telescopes such as SOHO and SDO missions. Besides the improvement of observational data, solar seismologists developed sophisticated techniques to infer the internal structure of the Sun. These methods, then already extensively used in the field of Geophysics, are called inversion techniques. They allowed to determine the position of the solar convective envelope, its helium abundance and the internal radial profiles of thermodynamic quantities. Back in 1990s these comparisons showed a very high agreement between solar models and the Sun. However, the downward revision of the CNO surface abundances in the Sun induced a drastic reduction of this agreement leading to the solar modelling problem. More than ten years later, in the era of the space-based photometry missions which have established asteroseismology of solar-like stars as a standard approach to obtain their masses, radii and ages, the solar modelling problem still awaits a solution. We will present the results of new helioseismic inversions, discuss the current uncertainties of solar models as well as some possible solutions to the solar problem. We will show how helioseismology can help us grasp what is amiss in our models. We will also show that, far from being an argument about details of solar models, the solar problem has significant implications for seismology of solar-like stars, on the main sequence and beyond, impacting asteroseismology as a whole as well as the fields requiring precise and accurate knowledge of stellar masses, radii and ages, such as Galactic archaeology and exoplanetology.

Editorial analysis

A structured set of objections, weighed in public.

Desk editor's note, referee report, simulated authors' rebuttal, and a circularity audit. Tearing a paper down is the easy half of reading it; the pith above is the substance, this is the friction.

Referee Report

0 major / 2 minor

Summary. The manuscript is a review summarizing the successes of helioseismology from ground- and space-based observations (GONG, BiSON, SOHO, SDO), the development of inversion techniques to determine solar interior properties, the emergence of the solar modelling problem after downward revision of CNO abundances, new inversion results, model uncertainties and candidate solutions, and the implications of the unresolved problem for asteroseismology of solar-like stars, Galactic archaeology, and exoplanetology.

Significance. If the review's assessment of the persistent solar modelling problem holds, the work is significant in connecting a long-standing solar-physics issue to the reliability of mass, radius, and age determinations across asteroseismology and dependent fields. The paper appropriately credits the high-quality data networks and established inversion methods for the pre-2000s agreement between models and observations.

minor comments (2)
  1. The abstract states that new inversions are presented but does not quantify the size of remaining discrepancies (e.g., sound-speed or density differences) relative to earlier work; a brief numerical summary would improve clarity for readers outside the immediate subfield.
  2. Section headings and figure captions could more explicitly label which inversions are new versus reproductions of prior results to help readers track the manuscript's original contributions.

Simulated Author's Rebuttal

0 responses · 0 unresolved

We thank the referee for their positive review, accurate summary of the manuscript, and recommendation to accept. We appreciate the recognition of the paper's significance in linking the solar modelling problem to broader implications in asteroseismology and related fields.

Circularity Check

0 steps flagged

No significant circularity detected

full rationale

This is a review paper summarizing established helioseismic inversions, the history of the solar modelling problem, and its implications for asteroseismology. No new derivations, fitted predictions, or load-bearing uniqueness theorems are introduced. The abstract and structure reference prior external results (GONG, BiSON, SOHO, SDO, abundance revisions) without reducing any claim to self-definition, self-citation chains, or renaming of inputs as outputs. The central statement that the problem remains unresolved follows directly from the cited observational and modelling discrepancies rather than from any internal construction.

Axiom & Free-Parameter Ledger

0 free parameters · 0 axioms · 0 invented entities

Abstract-only access limits identification of specific free parameters or axioms. The narrative assumes standard helioseismic inversion techniques and solar model physics are reliable inputs.

pith-pipeline@v0.9.0 · 5869 in / 1080 out tokens · 13202 ms · 2026-05-25T19:59:41.148348+00:00 · methodology

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