REVIEW 2 major objections 4 minor 50 references
NEMO: Can Multimodal LLMs Identify Attribute-Modified Objects?
T0 review · 2 major / 4 minor · reviewed 2026-08-12 · deepseek-v4-flash
Pith's one-line read This paper claims that current multimodal large language models, including top commercial models, consistently fail to identify objects whose color or shape has been changed to implausible values, and that the failure is tied to…
desk verdict Solid new benchmark for attribute-modified object recognition, but the claim that larger LLMs weaken vision encoders is not isolated from confounds. read the letter →
The pith
A machine-rendered reading of the paper's core claim, the machinery that carries it, and where it could break.
The reading
What carries the argument
The load-bearing design is a paired benchmark: each of 45 fruit categories contributes original internet images and DALL-E-generated attribute-modified images, so every model can be scored on the same object with and without an abnormal attribute, isolating the effect of attribute change. Three question formats test recognition from free recall, forced choice, and rejection of all wrong options, with choices circularly shifted to control for answer-position bias. The diagnostic that carries the scaling claim is image-to-image matching: after separating the fine-tuned vision encoder from the LLM, top-5 retrieval accuracy on Original-to-Original and Attribute-modified-to-Original pairs is used as a measure of encoder quality after fine-tuning.
What would settle it
Fine-tune the same pre-trained vision encoder with the same data and projector while varying only the language model's size, then rerun NEMO and the Original-to-Original and Attribute-modified-to-Original retrieval tests; if retrieval accuracy and attribute-modified accuracy do not fall as the LLM grows, the claim that larger LLMs weaken vision encoders is refuted.
Extended reading notes
Core claim
NEMO reveals a general limitation in current MLLMs: when an object's attribute is changed to a novel color (or shape), models that correctly named the original object often misname the modified one, even when humans find the modified object easily identifiable. Comparing multiple-choice accuracy of MLLMs with the embedding similarity of their own pre-trained vision encoders shows that the standalone encoder frequently outperforms the full model built on it, indicating that vision-language alignment fails to exploit the encoder's capabilities. Image-to-image matching experiments with the fine-tuned encoders extracted from MLLMs show that models trained with larger LLMs, such as LLaVA-NeXT-72B and 110B, retrieve worse than their smaller counterparts, leading the authors to conclude that larger LLMs can weaken vision encoders during fine-tuning. The same performance pattern holds for shape-modified fruits and color-modified animals, suggesting the limitation is general to attribute deviation, not specific to fruits or colors.
Load-bearing premise
The retrieval experiment assumes that top-5 image-to-image matching accuracy of the fine-tuned vision encoder measures the encoder's standalone quality, and that differences between model families are caused by LLM size rather than by training data, projector architecture, or fine-tuning recipe.
Editorial extensions
If this is right
- NEMO can serve as a testbed for future MLLMs, scoring them on original versus attribute-modified pairs to separate improvements in perception, alignment, and language priors.
- Standalone vision encoders set a bound that current MLLMs fail to reach, so better results should be attainable by improving the vision-language interface rather than only enlarging the language model.
- Scaling language-model parameters can actively hurt attribute-modified recognition, so model families should report per-size results instead of assuming larger is better.
- The high variance in unsolvable questions under choice shifting indicates that option-position preferences contaminate multiple-choice evaluation, and circular shifting should be standard practice.
- The replicated drop on shape-modified fruits and color-modified animals implies the limitation is about attribute deviation in general, not about fruit or color categories in particular.
Reading between the lines
- A direct next experiment would score each MLLM against its own vision encoder per object category, turning the aggregate gap into a per-object diagnostic of where the vision-language interface loses information.
- The benchmark could separate perceptual failure from language-prior failure: if a model names a blue object correctly when the category is supplied as text but fails from vision alone, the bottleneck is visual grounding rather than object knowledge.
- The choice-shift instability suggests that some reported accuracy gains on multiple-choice vision benchmarks may be inflated by position preference, so re-scoring existing benchmarks with circular shifts could change model rankings.
- A controlled fine-tuning study that fixes vision encoder, data, projector, and recipe while varying only LLM size would directly test the claim that larger LLMs weaken vision encoders, and would also reveal at what parameter scale the degradation begins.
Editorial analysis
A structured set of objections, weighed in public.
Referee Report
Summary. The paper introduces NEMO, a benchmark for evaluating multimodal large language models (MLLMs) on recognizing objects whose attributes (primarily color) have been modified beyond commonsense. NEMO contains 900 images (450 original fruit images collected from the internet and 450 DALL-E-generated attribute-modified versions) and 2,700 VQA questions spanning open, multiple-choice, and unsolvable formats. The authors evaluate 26 open-sourced and commercial MLLMs along with human and random baselines. They report a consistent accuracy drop on attribute-modified objects across all models, with open-sourced models lagging behind commercial ones. They further analyze the performance drop by comparing MLLMs with their standalone vision encoders, examining scaling trends with model size, and measuring image-to-image retrieval using fine-tuned encoder representations. The paper also reports model preferences for common objects and extensions to shape-modified fruits and color-modified animals.
Significance. The benchmark is a potentially useful addition to the beyond-commonsense evaluation literature. Its construction is careful in several respects: human validation of generated images, circular shifting of multiple-choice options to mitigate position bias, a human baseline with high performance, and released code. The central empirical finding—that all evaluated MLLMs, including GPT-4o, show a substantial performance drop on attribute-modified objects—is well supported by Table 2 and by the extension experiments in the supplementary material. The paper is less convincing in its causal claims about vision-encoder and LLM-size effects, which are based on comparisons across model families that differ in multiple architectural and training dimensions. If the authors revise the language to match the correlational evidence, the benchmark and its main findings would be a solid contribution.
major comments (2)
- [Sec. 5.2, Question 3, Fig. 5 (SM C.4)] The claim that "larger LLMs often weaken vision encoders during fine-tuning" is not established by the evidence presented. The comparison in Fig. 5 does not isolate LLM size: LLaVA-NeXT-8B uses LLaMA3-8B, while LLaVA-NeXT-72B and 110B use Qwen1.5-72B/110B, and these variants differ in projector, training data, and recipe. The InternVL2 comparisons similarly conflate LLM family and vision encoder (InternViT-300M-448 for models up to 8B versus InternViT-6B-448 for 26B and larger). In addition, SM C.4 does not specify whether the image representation is taken before or after the projector, so the retrieval accuracy may include projection and language-model effects. The observed degradation of LLaVA-NeXT-110B relative to LLaVA-NeXT-8B could therefore be caused by any of these confounds. Please either supply controlled experiments (e.g., the same vision encoder and training recipe with only the LLM size varied) or rephrase Answer 3 and the abstract's scaling claim as a correlation without causal attribution.
- [Sec. 5.2, Question 2, Fig. 4 (Table 2)] The model-size scaling analysis also confounds LLM size with vision encoder identity. Within the LLaVA-NeXT series, the 32B variant uses SigLIP-ViT-SO-14-384 while the 8B, 72B, and 110B variants use CLIP-ViT-L-14-336; within InternVL2, the 1B–8B models use InternViT-300M-448 and the 26B–76B models use InternViT-6B-448-V1.5. Thus the observed non-monotonic accuracy pattern—for example, the drop from LLaVA-NeXT-Qwen-32B to LLaVA-NeXT-72B—could be driven by the change in vision encoder rather than by LLM size. Please either control for the vision encoder while varying LLM size, or soften Answer 2 to say that the examined models do not show a consistent monotonic improvement with size, without implying that LLM size is the causal factor.
minor comments (4)
- [SM C.2] The human evaluation relies on only two annotators, and no inter-annotator agreement is reported. Please add agreement statistics such as Cohen's kappa, or include more annotators, to support the reliability of the human baseline.
- [SM C.3] The use of GPT-4o as an automatic judge for sentence-producing models could introduce a systematic bias in the reported open-question accuracies. Please validate a random subset of GPT-4o judgments against human judgments and report the agreement.
- [SM B.4] Distractor options are constructed from misclassifications by a subset of the evaluated models. Since the same distractors are used for all models, the absolute difficulty for those particular models may be influenced. Please report the sensitivity of the results to an alternative distractor set (e.g., human-generated distractors).
- [Table 2 footnote and SM text] The footnote phrase "original marks the second best" appears to be a LaTeX formatting artifact and should read "underlined" or "italicized." In addition, fix the typo "mamually" in SM B.4, the duplicated "as" in SM F.2 ("serve as as a testbed"), and "comparision" in Section 1.
Circularity Check
Minor circularity in multiple-choice distractor construction; the central benchmark findings remain independently supported.
-
fitted input called prediction
[Supplementary Material B.4, 'Questions Construction']
"To construct distractor choices for the multiple-choice questions and unsolvable questions, We collect misclassified objects from the open questions’s responses by GPT-4o [28], LLaV A-NeXT-8B [19], InstructBLIP-7B [9] , InstructBLIP-13B [9], and MiniGPT-v2-7B [6]. We select Top-3 most frequent misclassified objects as the distractor options."
The distractor options are fitted to the open-question misclassifications of five of the models that are then evaluated on these same multiple-choice/unsolvable questions. For those models, the option set is not independent of their own error patterns: their most frequent errors are deliberately inserted as decoys, so the resulting multiple-choice accuracy partially re-measures the fitted error distribution rather than providing a fresh, unbiased probe of recognition ability. The loop is localized, however, because open-question results, which contain no constructed options, and human baselines independently reproduce the original-versus-attribute-modified performance gap. The headline finding therefore does not reduce to this construction.
full rationale
The central claims are empirical benchmark measurements: accuracy on original versus attribute-modified objects across 26 models, with human baselines and open-question checks. These measurements are not derived from fitted parameters or self-citations; no load-bearing uniqueness theorem is imported, and the open-question and unsolvable results provide independent evidence for the main performance gap. The one self-referential construction is the distractor selection in SM B.4, where decoy options for multiple-choice and unsolvable questions are taken from the misclassifications of five evaluated models; this makes multiple-choice accuracy for those models partially circular, but it is not the load-bearing evidence for the core conclusion. The 'larger LLMs weaken vision encoders' claim in Sec. 5.2 Question 3 is confounded by LLM family, projector, training data, and recipe differences, but confounding is a validity or correctness risk rather than circularity, so it is not scored here. Overall circularity is minor and localized.
Assumptions & free parameters
assumptions (4)
- domain assumption DALL-E generated images preserve the fruit category while modifying color, and manual checks ensure recognizability.
- domain assumption The 45 fruit categories and 10 colors per object are representative of beyond-commonsense scenarios.
- domain assumption Image-to-image matching accuracy of a fine-tuned vision encoder reflects encoder quality independently of the LLM and projector.
- domain assumption GPT-4o can reliably judge whether a model response matches the ground truth.
Cite this review
Pith. "Pith review of NEMO: Can Multimodal LLMs Identify Attribute-Modified Objects?." pith.science (2026). https://pith.science/paper/WI3ZMMUV
@misc{pith2026241117794,
author = {Pith},
title = {Pith review of: NEMO: Can Multimodal LLMs Identify Attribute-Modified Objects?},
year = {2026},
howpublished = {\url{https://pith.science/paper/WI3ZMMUV}},
note = {Machine review of arXiv:2411.17794}
}
read the original abstract
Multimodal Large Language Models (MLLMs) have made notable advances in visual understanding, yet their abilities to recognize objects modified by specific attributes remain an open question. To address this, we explore MLLMs' reasoning capabilities in object recognition, ranging from commonsense to beyond-commonsense scenarios. We introduce a novel benchmark, NEMO, which comprises 900 images of origiNal fruits and their corresponding attributE-MOdified ones; along with a set of 2,700 questions including open-, multiple-choice-, unsolvable types. We assess 26 recent open-sourced and commercial models using our benchmark. The findings highlight pronounced performance gaps in recognizing objects in NEMO and reveal distinct answer preferences across different models. Although stronger vision encoders improve performance, MLLMs still lag behind standalone vision encoders. Interestingly, scaling up the model size does not consistently yield better outcomes, as deeper analysis reveals that larger LLMs can weaken vision encoders during fine-tuning. These insights shed light on critical limitations in current MLLMs and suggest potential pathways toward developing more versatile and resilient multimodal models.
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dall-e-3
4, 5, 12, 13, 19 11 Supplementary Material for NEMO : Can Multimodal LLMs Identify Attribute-Modified Objects? This supplementary material complements our paper with the following sections: • We discuss further related work on multimodal large lan- guage models (MLLMs) (see Se...
Reviewed August 12, 2026 · model on record in the stance chip above.
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