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REVIEW 4 major objections 7 minor 92 references

Custom TESS apertures detect solar-like oscillations in 43 giants above three solar masses, including ten above five—among the highest-mass oscillators found so far.

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2026-07-31 16:15 UTC pith:Q46K3ONA

load-bearing objection Solid TESS detections and a useful APOGEE log g offset; the >5 M☉ headline is real but rests on SSR alone and needs blend control before you lean on the individual masses. the 4 major comments →

arxiv 2607.28151 v1 pith:Q46K3ONA submitted 2026-07-30 astro-ph.SR

Detecting Solar-Like Oscillations in the Highest Mass TESS Giants

Noah J. Downing , Madeline Howell , Marc H. Pinsonneault , Rafael A. Garc\'ia , Dinil B. Palakkatharappil , Lina Borg , Savita Mathur This is my paper
classification astro-ph.SR
keywords AsteroseismologyRed giant starsHorizontal branch starsLight curvesTESSIntermediate-mass giantsSolar-like oscillationsSurface gravity calibration
verification ladder T0 review T1 audit T2 compute T3 formal T4 reserved

The pith

A machine-rendered reading of the paper's core claim, the machinery that carries it, and where it could break.

Kepler mostly saw low-mass red giants away from the Galactic plane, so stars above about three solar masses have been scarce in asteroseismic catalogs. This paper pre-selects 227 intermediate-mass candidates with photometry and spectroscopy, then rebuilds their TESS light curves with hand-chosen apertures and careful detrending. That processing raises the power-to-background ratio in the oscillation envelope by about 12 percent relative to the standard quick-look pipeline, even in crowded fields. Oscillations are recovered in 98 stars; single-scaling masses that combine the frequency of maximum power with Gaia radii put 43 of them above three solar masses and ten above five. The same detections show APOGEE spectroscopic surface gravities running systematically high by about 0.23 dex, which the authors link to the missing intermediate-mass calibrators from Kepler. The same cuts applied to all-sky Gaia XP parameters point to tens of thousands of further candidates.

Core claim

With boutique custom-aperture TESS light curves, solar-like oscillations are detected in 98 of 227 pre-selected evolved candidates, yielding single-scaling seismic masses for 43 stars with M* greater than about 3 solar masses—including 10 above 5 solar masses—and revealing that APOGEE DR19 spectroscopic log g is on average 0.23 dex higher than the seismic value, likely because Kepler never sampled this mass range for the spectroscopic calibration.

What carries the argument

Custom photometric apertures plus PCA-based background correction on TESS full-frame cutouts, which raise the power-to-background ratio inside the oscillation envelope; masses then come from the single-scaling relation that folds measured νmax with an independent Gaia radius (assuming the νmax correction factor is of order unity).

Load-bearing premise

That masses built from the oscillation peak frequency plus a Gaia radius, with the usual scaling factor near one, correctly identify these stars as intermediate-mass even though many targets sit in crowded fields and the pre-selection itself used the spectroscopic gravities now shown to be biased.

What would settle it

Independent high-resolution spectroscopy or longer-baseline photometry that yields clean Δν ridges and model-independent masses for the ten claimed M > 5 M⊙ stars; if those masses fall well below five solar masses, or if the oscillation signal is shown to come from a neighbor, the high-mass claim fails.

Watch this falsifier — get emailed when new claim-graph text bears on it.

If this is right

  • APOGEE and similar spectroscopic pipelines need intermediate-mass seismic calibrators so that log g is not systematically high in this regime.
  • Tens of thousands of TESS targets with Gaia XP parameters become a ready list for intermediate-mass oscillator searches.
  • Stars near and above 5 M⊙ with detected oscillations become direct tests of convective-core overshoot, rotational mixing, and angular-momentum transport.
  • Custom-aperture methods can recover oscillations in the crowded Galactic plane where standard pipelines lose signal.
  • Future Roman bulge time-domain data can be expected to add a large intermediate-mass seismic sample.

Where Pith is reading between the lines

These are editorial extensions of the paper, not claims the author makes directly.

  • If the 0.23 dex log g offset is real and mass-dependent, published spectroscopic masses and ages for hot, luminous giants across the disk may be systematically wrong until re-calibrated.
  • The preference for single-scaling over double-scaling masses at very low νmax suggests that population studies of the most luminous TESS giants will need Gaia radii as a standard ingredient rather than Δν alone.
  • Automating the manual aperture step would turn the ~37,000-candidate list into a practical all-sky survey of the high-mass red-giant regime.

Editorial analysis

A structured set of objections, weighed in public.

Desk editor's note, referee report, simulated authors' rebuttal, and a circularity audit.

Referee Report

4 major / 7 minor

Summary. The paper pre-selects 227 evolved intermediate-mass candidates from APOGEE DR19 using HR-diagram and spectroscopic-mass cuts, extracts custom TESS FFI light curves with hand-drawn apertures and PCA background correction, and reports a median 12% gain in power-to-background ratio relative to QLP. Solar-like oscillations (measurable νmax) are claimed in 98 stars; single-scaling (SSR) masses from νmax plus Gaia radius yield 43 stars with M* ≳ 3 M⊙ and 10 with M* > 5 M⊙. The authors also report that APOGEE DR19 spectroscopic log g is on average 0.23 dex higher than seismic log g, attribute this to sparse intermediate-mass Kepler calibrators, discard double-scaling (DSR) masses because Δν is unreliable at low νmax, and estimate up to ~37,000 Gaia XP candidates for future work.

Significance. If the detections and mass ranking hold, this is a valuable extension of red-giant asteroseismology into a sparsely sampled mass regime that Kepler largely missed, with direct implications for APOGEE log g calibration and for population studies of intermediate-mass giants. The custom-aperture pipeline and explicit PBR comparison to QLP (Figs. 4–5) are concrete methodological contributions, and the abundance checks ([Fe/H], [α/Fe], [C/N]) provide useful population-level support for a young thin-disk sample. The work is timely given TESS all-sky coverage and upcoming Roman bulge time-domain data. The headline claim of ~10 stars above 5 M⊙ among the highest-mass solar-like oscillators is of high interest but currently rests almost entirely on SSR masses under f_νmax ~ 1 with substantial contamination flags, so the significance of that specific claim is conditional on stronger validation or clearer restriction of the sample.

major comments (4)
  1. [Section 3.1, Table 1] Section 3.1 and Table 1: The central claim of 10 stars with M* > 5 M⊙ (and 43 with M* > 3 M⊙) is carried by SSR masses (Eq. 9) alone. Of 98 νmax detections, 45 are flagged as potentially contaminated; the paper itself shows contamination can inject a false high νmax and inflate SSR mass (TIC 10431423 → ~19.8 M⊙). Several Table 1 high-mass objects have Cont.=1. Please report explicitly how many of the M*>5 M⊙ and M*>3 M⊙ objects are Cont.=0 versus Cont.=1, and present headline counts (abstract, §3, §5) for an uncontaminated subsample, or justify why Cont.=1 objects remain in the high-mass tally.
  2. [Section 2.4, Eqs. 5 and 9, Appendix A] Section 2.4 and Appendix A: DSR masses are discarded because Δν is often based on only 2–3 radial orders, échelle ridges are weak, and DSR breaks down at large radii, leaving no independent seismic mass cross-check. The assumption f_νmax of order unity is stated but not tested; SSR depends linearly on f_νmax while any residual νmax bias at low frequency (where the APOGEE offset also grows; Fig. 6) moves stars across the 3 and 5 M⊙ thresholds. Please quantify sensitivity of the M*>3 and M*>5 counts to plausible f_νmax variations and to systematic νmax shifts at the level of the reported uncertainties, and state more clearly that mass ranking is provisional pending better Δν or individual-frequency work.
  3. [Section 2.2, Eqs. 2–3; Section 4.1] Section 2.2 and 4.1: Target selection used spectroscopic masses (Eqs. 2–3) built from the same APOGEE log g later found to be ~0.23 dex high relative to seismic log g. That bias systematically inflates pre-selection masses and can enrich the input list in stars that only appear intermediate-mass spectroscopically. The seismic sample is not fully independent of the calibration problem under study. Please quantify how the selected sample and the final SSR high-mass counts change if the spectroscopic log g is shifted by the measured offset (or a νmax-dependent version of it) before applying the 3.5–10 M⊙ cut, and discuss residual low-mass AGB/upper-RGB contamination in that light (§4.2).
  4. [Section 4.4, Table 2] Section 4.4 and Table 2: Expected detection counts are obtained by multiplying TESS-atl probabilities by the 43% νmax recovery rate from the 227-star boutique sample. That recovery rate reflects hand-tuned apertures, visual power-excess windows, and a pre-selection already biased toward high spectroscopic mass; it is not obviously transferable to the full Gaia XP cross-match. Please separate (i) the empirical recovery in the studied sample from (ii) forecasts for the larger catalog, and present the latter with clearer caveats or alternative recovery assumptions.
minor comments (7)
  1. [Abstract; Section 3.2] Abstract says “12% average increase” in PBR; Section 3.2 and Fig. 4 report a median 12% increase. Please make abstract and body consistent (median vs mean).
  2. [Abstract; Section 3.1; Section 5] Abstract and §3/§5 disagree slightly on the intermediate-mass count (43 vs 44). Align the numbers throughout.
  3. [Figure 3] Figure 3 caption and text: clarify whether the mean fractional residual ~0.35 is (Mspec−MSSR)/Mspec or the reverse, and state the sign convention in the panel.
  4. [Section 2.3] Section 2.3: the choice of seven PCA components is stated without justification or a sensitivity test. A brief note on why seven (and whether results change for 5–10) would help reproducibility.
  5. [Appendix A] Appendix A, Eq. (A1): scaling Δν uncertainty by T_Kepler/T_TESS is a rough proxy; note that duty cycle and gap structure also differ, or cite a supporting reference.
  6. [Section 2.4; Figure 1] Typos/style: “detecing” → “detecting” (§2.4); “asfgrid” capitalization inconsistent; “CHeB” defined in Fig. 1 caption but used densely—ensure first use in text is expanded.
  7. [Table 1 note] Machine-readable full table is promised; ensure Cont. flag, number of sectors, νmax, Gaia radius, and both mass estimates are included so the high-mass and contamination claims can be audited.

Circularity Check

2 steps flagged

No load-bearing circular derivation: seismic νmax/SSR masses and the 0.23 dex log g offset are independent of APOGEE; only mild selection/forecast reuse of the biased spectroscopic inputs.

specific steps
  1. other [Section 2.2, Eqs. 2–3; cf. Section 4.1 / Fig. 6]
    "We then select stars with a spectroscopic mass in the range 3.5 M⊙ < M∗ < 10 M⊙. ... M/M⊙ = g/g⊙ (R/R⊙)² ... We find an average offset of 0.23±0.28 dex between our spectroscopic log g values and seismic log g values"

    Candidate isolation uses spectroscopic masses that embed the APOGEE log g later found systematically high by 0.23 dex. That biases the input list toward stars APOGEE ranks as intermediate-mass; it does not, however, define the seismic νmax or SSR masses, so the offset and mass ranking remain independent measurements rather than identities.

  2. fitted input called prediction [Section 4.4, Table 2]
    "To infer the number of expected detections, we take the number of targets above a certain TESS-atl detection probability and multiply it by 43%, which is the recovery rate of νmax for the 227 stars we study in this paper ... >0.05 36,620"

    The headline “up to ~37,000 candidates” is the external TESS-atl pool scaled by this work’s own 43% recovery fraction. That is an empirical forecast reuse of the sample success rate, not an independent prediction; it does not circularize the 98 detections or the SSR masses themselves.

full rationale

This is an observational detection paper, not a first-principles derivation. Seismic log g follows from measured νmax via the standard scaling (Eq. 5) and SSR masses from νmax plus Gaia radius (Eq. 9) with f_νmax~1 assumed from the literature; neither quantity is defined in terms of APOGEE log g. The reported 0.23 dex offset is therefore an external cross-check, not a tautology. Custom-aperture PBR gains vs QLP are empirical. Mild non-load-bearing circularity appears only in (i) pre-selection that used spectroscopic masses built from the same APOGEE log g later shown high (Eqs. 2–3), so the input “intermediate-mass” list is biased by the quantity under study, and (ii) scaling the all-sky candidate count by this paper’s own 43% νmax recovery rate. Neither step forces the detection counts or the seismic mass ranking by construction. Self-citations (e.g. APOKASC-3) supply context and Δν uncertainty scaling, not uniqueness theorems that lock the result. Score 2 reflects selection/forecast reuse only.

Axiom & Free-Parameter Ledger

6 free parameters · 6 axioms · 0 invented entities

Load-bearing content is empirical photometry plus standard asteroseismic scaling. The claim stack depends on solar reference scalings, unity f_νmax for CHeB intermediate-mass stars, Gaia luminosities/radii and extinction, APOGEE/Gaia-XP labels for selection, and human aperture/νmax/Δν judgments—not on new physical entities.

free parameters (6)
  • f_νmax = ~1 (assumed)
    Correction factor in Eqs. 5, 7–9 set to order unity for core-He-burning intermediate-mass stars by appeal to prior low-mass work, not re-fit here; SSR masses scale linearly with it.
  • PCA component count for background design matrix = 7
    Seven principal components chosen for RegressionCorrector systematic removal (Section 2.3); affects residual noise and thus detectability.
  • PBR/smoothing and power-excess window choices = ±3Δν gap; manual windows for noisy targets
    Gaussian smooth width ~Δν, background gap ±3Δν, pyMON windows sometimes set manually; change which targets pass visual νmax detection.
  • Δν uncertainty scaling from Kepler median = σ_Δν,Kepler = 0.6%
    Eq. A1 rescales 0.6% APOKASC-3 median uncertainty by baseline ratio rather than measuring TESS Δν errors directly.
  • TESS-atl detection-probability thresholds × 43% recovery = 43% recovery; thresholds 0.05–0.95
    Forecast counts in Table 2 multiply external detection probabilities by this paper’s 98/227 recovery fraction.
  • HRD and spectroscopic mass selection boundaries = 3.5–10 M⊙; >5 sectors
    log g < 3.5, Teff < 6000 K, cut near 4 M⊙ MIST track, 3.5 < M_spec < 10 M⊙, >5 TESS sectors define the 227-star sample.
axioms (6)
  • domain assumption Solar-like νmax and Δν scaling relations (Eqs. 5–9) map global seismic observables to mass and radius when combined with Teff and/or Gaia radius.
    Standard asteroseismic toolkit invoked throughout Section 2.4 and Appendix A; validity at 20–80 R⊙ and ≳5 M⊙ is acknowledged as strained for DSR.
  • domain assumption f_νmax is of order unity for intermediate-mass core-helium-burning stars.
    Stated in Section 2.4 with citations to Yu, Zinn, Li, Crawford; not independently calibrated on this sample.
  • domain assumption Gaia-based luminosities/radii (Bailer-Jones distances, Bayestar19 extinction, MIST BC_G) are accurate enough for SSR masses.
    Equations 1–3 and 9; large radii dominate mass error budget and blend risk.
  • ad hoc to paper Pixels outside the hand-drawn aperture primarily trace background/systematics and are safe PCA regressors.
    Section 2.3 boutique reduction; crowded plane makes this only approximately true—authors flag contamination.
  • ad hoc to paper Visual identification of oscillation excess and échelle ridges is sufficient to claim detections when automated background fits fail at low νmax.
    pyMON + by-eye νmax/Δν workflow in Sections 2.4 and A.1.
  • domain assumption Asfgrid f_Δν interpolation remains usable near/beyond the 5.5 M⊙ grid edge via nearest-point fallback.
    Appendix A.1 flags 7 stars outside the grid; used only for DSR path the authors ultimately distrust.

pith-pipeline@v1.2.0-daily-grok45 · 23185 in / 4028 out tokens · 90531 ms · 2026-07-31T16:15:13.407963+00:00 · methodology

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read the original abstract

Red-giant asteroseismology yields precise stellar parameters, making it a powerful tool for studying stellar structure and evolution, as demonstrated by the Kepler mission. However, due to Kepler's limited field of view, it primarily sampled the more populous low-mass red giants found outside of the Galactic plane, leading to limited detections of red giants above $\rm 3\ M_{\odot}$. Here we use the all-sky TESS data to isolate 227 intermediate-mass candidates from large catalogs with a pre-selection based on photometric and spectroscopic data. We optimize TESS light curves using a boutique light curve detrending method with custom apertures. Compared to the MIT Quick Look Pipeline, this yields a 12% average increase in the power-to-background ratio within the oscillation envelope, even in the heavily crowded Galactic plane. We detect solar-like oscillations in 98 targets, including 43 with $\rm M_* > 3\ M_{\odot}$. Our sample also includes 10 stars having masses greater than $5\ \rm{M}_{\odot}$, among the highest-mass solar-like oscillators detected to date. From our detections, we find that the APOGEE DR19 spectroscopic $\log g$ is systematically larger by, on average, 0.23 dex compared to the seismic $\log g$. This offset is possibly due to the lack of intermediate-mass giants observed by Kepler, which was used to calibrate the spectroscopic $\log g$ in the APOGEE pipeline. Extending the same pre-selection criteria to TESS targets with Gaia XP spectroscopic parameters identifies up to 37,000 candidate intermediate-mass solar-like oscillators for follow-up and population studies.

Figures

Figures reproduced from arXiv: 2607.28151 by Dinil B. Palakkatharappil, Lina Borg, Madeline Howell, Marc H. Pinsonneault, Noah J. Downing, Rafael A. Garc\'ia, Savita Mathur.

Figure 1
Figure 1. Figure 1: HRD of the selection process described in Section 2.2. The RGB selection is shown in grey and stars selected by HRD position and spectroscopic mass are shown in red. The solid purple line shows where we made our HRD se￾lection. The evolutionary tracks represent masses of 5M⊙, 4M⊙, 3M⊙, and 1M⊙ (from top to bottom) all at solar metal￾licity. The solid black lines correspond to the core helium burning (CHeB)… view at source ↗
Figure 2
Figure 2. Figure 2: Sky map of the TIC and R. Andrae et al. 2023 catalog cross-match after applying the selection criteria outlined in Section 2.2. Points are colored by detection probability. Grey points are the cross-match without including the criterion that targets have more than 5 sectors of TESS data. Red points are the 98 stars for which we detect oscillations as discussed in Section 3. The TESS Northern and Southern C… view at source ↗
Figure 3
Figure 3. Figure 3: Top Panel: Comparison of the SSR mass to the spectroscopic mass for all stars with measured νmax. Dotted line represents a 1:1 mass relation. Bottom Panel: Frac￾tional mass residuals for all stars with measured νmax. The dashed line represents the 1:1 mass relation and the two dot￾ted lines correspond to ±2σ around the mean of the residual distribution. The mean fractional residual is ∼ 0.35. In both panel… view at source ↗
Figure 4
Figure 4. Figure 4 [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p007_4.png] view at source ↗
Figure 5
Figure 5. Figure 5: Background-divided power spectra for TIC 11114629 from QLP (red) and our custom aperture photom￾etry (black), shown without smoothing. The measured νmax is denoted by the dotted black line. The frequency range shown is ±4 ∆ν around νmax where ∆ν is estimated using the νmax-∆ν relation from D. Stello et al. (2009). 2005). These systematic uncertainties can be calibrated against seismic measurements of log g… view at source ↗
Figure 6
Figure 6. Figure 6: Offset between spectroscopic and seismic log g compared to νmax. Points are colored by Teff . The dotted line corresponds to no offset. TIC 10431423 is a notable outlier present in [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p008_6.png] view at source ↗
Figure 7
Figure 7. Figure 7: Abundance distributions for [Fe/H], [α/Fe], and [C/N] (top, middle, and bottom respectively). Black dotted lines correspond to the 16th and 84th percentile and the black dashed line corresponds to the 50th percentile. 4.4. Potential for Future Work We also performed the cuts from Section 2.2 on a sam￾ple of stars created by cross-matching the TESS Input Catalog (K. G. Stassun et al. 2018b) and the R. Andra… view at source ↗
Figure 8
Figure 8. Figure 8: Example power spectra (left), background-corrected power spectra (middle), and ´echelle diagrams (right) for three of the intermediate-mass stars in our sample. Power spectra are plotted in black and smoothed power spectra are plotted in purple. In log-log plots the power spectrum is smoothed with a gaussian filter of width equal to ∆ν and in the background-corrected plots the power spectrum is smoothed wi… view at source ↗
Figure 9
Figure 9. Figure 9: Top Panel: Comparison of the DSR mass to the SSR mass for all stars with measured ∆ν. Dotted line represents a 1:1 mass relation. Bottom Panel: Fractional mass residuals for all stars with measured ∆ν. The dashed line represents the 1:1 mass relation and the two dotted lines correspond to ±2σ around the mean of the residual distribu￾tion. The mean fractional residual is ∼ 0.10. In both panels, the red poin… view at source ↗

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