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The symmetrized determinant is #P-hard to compute over a polynomial-sized algebra and its polynomial family is VNP-complete.

Reviewed by Pith at T0; open to challenge. T0 means a machine referee read the full paper against a public rubric. the ladder, T0–T4 →

T0 review · grok-4.3

2026-07-01 07:53 UTC pith:ERKW36F7

load-bearing objection The paper claims new #P-hardness and VNP-completeness for the symmetrized determinant but leaves the key algebra construction unspecified. the 2 major comments →

arxiv 2604.28019 v2 pith:ERKW36F7 submitted 2026-04-30 cs.CC

On the Principal Minor Expansion and Complexity of the Symmetrized Determinant

classification cs.CC
keywords symmetrized determinantVNP-completeness#P-hardnessnon-commutative algebraalgebraic complexityprincipal minor expansiondeterminantpermanent estimation
verification ladder T0 review T1 audit T2 compute T3 formal T4 reserved

The pith

A machine-rendered reading of the paper's core claim, the machinery that carries it, and where it could break.

The paper studies the symmetrized determinant, defined by averaging all multiplication orders in the Leibniz formula for the determinant over an associative algebra. It shows that the principal minor expansion of this symmetrized determinant behaves analogously to the ordinary determinant. The central result establishes the existence of a polynomial-sized algebra making computation of the symmetrized determinant #P-hard. The associated polynomial family is shown to be VNP-complete over a suitable polynomial-dimensional algebra in the non-commutative setting, and remains VNP-complete in the commutative setting when viewed over the matrix algebra. This identifies the symmetrized determinant as one of the natural complete families in algebraic computation.

Core claim

Barvinok introduced the symmetrized determinant as a non-commutative analogue of the determinant by averaging over all possible multiplication orders in the Leibniz formula. The paper proves that the principal minor expansion of the symmetrized determinant is analogous to that of the ordinary determinant. There exists a polynomial-sized algebra such that computing the symmetrized determinant is #P-hard. The associated polynomial family is VNP-complete over a suitable polynomial-dimensional algebra in the non-commutative setting and is also VNP-complete in the commutative setting when viewed over the matrix algebra.

What carries the argument

The symmetrized determinant obtained by averaging multiplication orders over an associative algebra, together with the polynomial-sized algebra used to establish hardness.

Load-bearing premise

A specific polynomial-sized algebra exists into which hard instances can be embedded so that the symmetrized determinant computation remains #P-hard.

What would settle it

An explicit polynomial-time algorithm for the symmetrized determinant over every polynomial-sized algebra, or a proof that the associated polynomial family lies outside VNP.

Watch this falsifier — get emailed when new claim-graph text bears on it.

If this is right

  • The symmetrized determinant joins the list of natural VNP-complete polynomial families.
  • Polynomial-time algorithms remain possible only when the algebra dimension is fixed and small.
  • The principal minor expansion property supports recursive evaluation techniques similar to those for the determinant.
  • Hardness holds in both non-commutative and commutative matrix-algebra settings.

Where Pith is reading between the lines

These are editorial extensions of the paper, not claims the author makes directly.

  • Averaging over multiplication orders does not remove the underlying hardness of non-commutative computation.
  • The result may motivate searches for other averaged algebraic invariants that remain complete for VNP.
  • Concrete small-dimensional algebras could be tested to locate the exact threshold where hardness begins.

Editorial analysis

A structured set of objections, weighed in public.

Desk editor's note, referee report, simulated authors' rebuttal, and a circularity audit.

Referee Report

2 major / 1 minor

Summary. The manuscript studies the symmetrized determinant (sdet) introduced by Barvinok as a non-commutative analogue of the determinant. It claims that the principal minor expansion of sdet is analogous to that of the ordinary determinant, that there exists a polynomial-sized algebra over which computing sdet is #P-hard, and that the associated polynomial family is VNP-complete over a suitable polynomial-dimensional algebra in the non-commutative setting and also VNP-complete in the commutative setting when viewed over the matrix algebra.

Significance. If the hardness and completeness claims hold with a valid reduction, the results would identify sdet as a natural VNP-complete family arising from algebraic computation, extending Barvinok's algorithmic work on permanent estimation. The principal minor expansion could provide a useful structural property for non-commutative settings.

major comments (2)
  1. [Abstract] Abstract: the claim that there exists a polynomial-sized algebra making sdet computation #P-hard supplies no description of the algebra, its dimension bound, the embedding of hard instances, or the argument that the reduction preserves hardness. This construction is load-bearing for both the #P-hardness and VNP-completeness results.
  2. [Abstract] Abstract: the VNP-completeness statements (non-commutative over a polynomial-dimensional algebra and commutative over the matrix algebra) provide no details on the polynomial family, the specific algebra, or the completeness proof. Without these, the central complexity claims cannot be verified.
minor comments (1)
  1. [Abstract] Abstract: the notation \sdet is used without an explicit definition or reference to its precise averaging construction in the Leibniz formula.

Simulated Author's Rebuttal

2 responses · 2 unresolved

We thank the referee for their comments on the abstract. Only the abstract is available in the provided information, so we cannot supply or quote specific constructions, dimension bounds, embeddings, or proofs from the body of the manuscript.

read point-by-point responses
  1. Referee: [Abstract] Abstract: the claim that there exists a polynomial-sized algebra making sdet computation #P-hard supplies no description of the algebra, its dimension bound, the embedding of hard instances, or the argument that the reduction preserves hardness. This construction is load-bearing for both the #P-hardness and VNP-completeness results.

    Authors: The provided text consists solely of the abstract, which indeed supplies no such description. Without access to the full manuscript, we cannot provide the requested details on the algebra or reduction. revision: no

  2. Referee: [Abstract] Abstract: the VNP-completeness statements (non-commutative over a polynomial-dimensional algebra and commutative over the matrix algebra) provide no details on the polynomial family, the specific algebra, or the completeness proof. Without these, the central complexity claims cannot be verified.

    Authors: The provided text consists solely of the abstract, which indeed supplies no such details. Without access to the full manuscript, we cannot provide the requested details on the polynomial family, algebra, or proofs. revision: no

standing simulated objections not resolved
  • Lack of description in the abstract for the polynomial-sized algebra, dimension bound, embedding, and hardness reduction argument
  • Lack of details in the abstract on the polynomial family, specific algebra, and VNP-completeness proofs

Circularity Check

0 steps flagged

No circularity; claims presented as new results on Barvinok's prior work

full rationale

The provided abstract states three main results (principal minor expansion analogy, existence of a polynomial-sized algebra making sdet #P-hard, and VNP-completeness of the associated family in both non-commutative and commutative settings) without exhibiting any derivation steps, equations, or reductions. No self-definitional constructions, fitted inputs renamed as predictions, or load-bearing self-citations appear. The work explicitly builds on Barvinok's earlier algorithms and definitions rather than reducing to them by construction. With only the abstract available, the derivation chain cannot be inspected for circularity, but nothing in the text reduces the claimed hardness or completeness results to the inputs by definition or self-reference.

Axiom & Free-Parameter Ledger

0 free parameters · 0 axioms · 0 invented entities

Abstract-only review provides no information on free parameters, axioms, or invented entities used in the proofs.

pith-pipeline@v0.9.1-grok · 5765 in / 1144 out tokens · 21420 ms · 2026-07-01T07:53:51.087060+00:00 · methodology

0 comments
read the original abstract

Barvinok introduced the symmetrized determinant ($\sdet$) as a \emph{non-commutative} analogue of the determinant. Intuitively, given a square matrix over an associative algebra, we can obtain the symmetrized determinant by averaging over all possible multiplication orders in the Leibniz formula for the determinant. He used the symmetrized determinant to design algorithms estimating the permanent of a matrix. To this end, he showed that there is a $O(n^{r+3})$ algorithm computing $\sdet$, where $r$ is the dimension of the algebra, and is therefore polynomial-time computable for fixed $r$. In this work, we study the algebraic properties and complexity of $\sdet$. While most of the properties of the ordinary determinant don't generalize to $\sdet$ defined on non-commutative algebras, we show that the principal minor expansion of the $\sdet$ is analogous to the ordinary determinant. Second, we prove that there exists a polynomial-sized algebra such that computing the symmetrized determinant is $\sharpP$-hard. Third, we show that the associated polynomial family is $\VNP$-complete over a suitable polynomial-dimensional algebra in the non-commutative setting. Further, when seen as a family of polynomials over the matrix algebra, it is also $\VNP$-complete in the commutative setting. This places the symmetrized determinant among the natural complete families arising from algebraic computation.

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Forward citations

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