REVIEW 2 major objections 2 minor 228 references
Can Scale Save Us From Plasticity Loss in Large Language Models?
T0 review · 2 major / 2 minor · reviewed 2026-06-25 · grok-4.3
Pith's one-line read Larger transformer language models delay the onset of plasticity loss but do not prevent it.
desk verdict Plasticity loss in transformers scales sublinearly and persists in stationary training, but the evidence depends on a probe whose validity as a plasticity measure is unclear. read the letter →
The pith
A machine-rendered reading of the paper's core claim, the machinery that carries it, and where it could break.
The reading
What carries the argument
Deterioration on a held-out Vietnamese probing task, used to quantify plasticity loss, together with the sublinear scaling law that describes when this deterioration begins as a function of model size.
What would settle it
Training models substantially larger than 314 million parameters on the same multilingual setup and finding no performance deterioration on the Vietnamese probing task after long training would contradict the claim that scale alone cannot eliminate plasticity loss.
Extended reading notes
Core claim
In GPT-style Transformer models trained on a multilingual continual learning problem, evidence of plasticity loss appears across scales from 5M to 314M non-embedding parameters as measured by deterioration on a held-out Vietnamese probing task. The onset of this loss follows a predictable scaling law that grows sublinearly with model size. The same deterioration is observed under stationary multilingual training without task changes, indicating that the phenomenon is not limited to abrupt distributional shifts.
Load-bearing premise
Drops in performance on the held-out Vietnamese task serve as a sufficient and representative indicator of plasticity loss, and the multilingual regimes and model sizes examined reflect typical large language model training.
Editorial extensions
If this is right
- Even models with hundreds of millions of parameters will eventually require additional mechanisms to maintain efficient adaptation after prolonged training.
- Plasticity loss arises in both continual learning with task changes and in stationary training on a fixed data distribution.
- Increasing parameter count postpones the measurable onset of plasticity loss according to a sublinear relationship.
- Natural-language transformers will lose the capacity for efficient adaptation to new data after sufficiently long training regardless of scale.
Reading between the lines
- Methods other than pure scaling, such as architectural changes or regularization techniques, will likely be needed to sustain long-term adaptability in deployed language models.
- The sublinear delay pattern suggests that practical training runs of current-generation models may already encounter adaptation limits before reaching the largest feasible sizes.
- Similar measurements on non-language domains could reveal whether the scaling behavior is specific to text or applies more broadly to neural networks.
- Monitoring probing-task performance during pretraining could serve as an early warning signal for when plasticity begins to degrade.
Editorial analysis
A structured set of objections, weighed in public.
Referee Report
Summary. The paper studies plasticity loss in GPT-style Transformer language models (5M–314M non-embedding parameters) trained on multilingual continual learning. It reports consistent deterioration on a held-out Vietnamese probing task as evidence of plasticity loss, identifies a sublinear scaling law governing the onset of this loss with model size, and finds similar deterioration under stationary multilingual training, concluding that scale delays but does not eliminate the problem.
Significance. If the Vietnamese probe is shown to measure reduced adaptation capacity rather than other forms of drift, the sublinear scaling result and the stationary-training observation would indicate that parameter count alone is unlikely to solve plasticity loss in natural-language domains. This would strengthen the case for targeted interventions beyond scale in continual-learning LLM research.
major comments (2)
- [Abstract] Abstract and §3 (experimental setup): the central claim equates deterioration on the held-out Vietnamese probing task with plasticity loss, yet the standard definition requires demonstrating slower adaptation rates on a new task after prolonged training; static evaluation on never-seen data may instead reflect representation drift or multilingual interference, rendering the scaling law and stationary-training conclusions ambiguous.
- [§4] §4 (results): the reported sublinear scaling of plasticity-loss onset with model size is presented without error bars, confidence intervals, or controls for training-procedure confounds, so it is unclear whether the functional form is robust or an artifact of the specific multilingual regime and model sizes (5M–314M).
minor comments (2)
- [Abstract] The abstract states the models have 5M–314M non-embedding parameters but does not specify embedding sizes or total parameter counts, which would aid reproducibility.
- No reference is made to prior work that directly measures adaptation rates (e.g., via fine-tuning curves) after long pre-training; adding such citations would clarify how the probe differs from standard plasticity metrics.
Simulated Author's Rebuttal
We thank the referee for the detailed and constructive comments. We address each major comment below and indicate the revisions we will make.
read point-by-point responses
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Referee: [Abstract] Abstract and §3 (experimental setup): the central claim equates deterioration on the held-out Vietnamese probing task with plasticity loss, yet the standard definition requires demonstrating slower adaptation rates on a new task after prolonged training; static evaluation on never-seen data may instead reflect representation drift or multilingual interference, rendering the scaling law and stationary-training conclusions ambiguous.
Authors: We appreciate the referee's point on definitional precision. Our manuscript uses deterioration on the held-out Vietnamese probe as a practical proxy for plasticity loss in the multilingual setting, following the measurement approach in the cited prior work on language models. We acknowledge that this static evaluation does not directly demonstrate slower adaptation rates on a new task and could be influenced by drift or interference. To resolve the ambiguity, we will revise the abstract and §3 to explicitly frame the probe result as a proxy measure, add a limitations paragraph discussing alternative interpretations, and note that future work could include direct adaptation-rate experiments. This is a partial revision. revision: partial
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Referee: [§4] §4 (results): the reported sublinear scaling of plasticity-loss onset with model size is presented without error bars, confidence intervals, or controls for training-procedure confounds, so it is unclear whether the functional form is robust or an artifact of the specific multilingual regime and model sizes (5M–314M).
Authors: We agree that the scaling-law figure and analysis would be strengthened by statistical rigor. In the revised manuscript we will recompute the onset points with error bars and confidence intervals obtained from multiple independent runs, and we will add a paragraph in §4 discussing controls for training-procedure variables (e.g., learning-rate schedules, data ordering) to show that the sublinear functional form is not an artifact of the particular regime. revision: yes
Circularity Check
No circularity: empirical measurements on held-out task with independent scaling observation
full rationale
The paper reports direct empirical measurements of performance deterioration on a held-out Vietnamese probing task across model sizes, plus an observed sublinear scaling of onset with parameter count. No equations, self-citations, or ansatzes are invoked that define the target quantity in terms of itself or rename a fitted parameter as a prediction. The central claims rest on external data evaluation rather than any reduction to the paper's own inputs by construction. This is the standard non-circular outcome for an empirical scaling study.
Assumptions & free parameters
Cite this review
Pith. "Pith review of Can Scale Save Us From Plasticity Loss in Large Language Models?." pith.science (2026). https://pith.science/paper/YGCU5UV5
@misc{pith2026260624752,
author = {Pith},
title = {Pith review of: Can Scale Save Us From Plasticity Loss in Large Language Models?},
year = {2026},
howpublished = {\url{https://pith.science/paper/YGCU5UV5}},
note = {Machine review of arXiv:2606.24752}
}
read the original abstract
The loss of plasticity - the ability of a network to learn new information after having already learned older information - is a fundamental challenge in creating artificial neural networks capable of continual learning. Although this phenomenon has been known for decades, it has mostly been studied in older, relatively small architectures and rarely in natural-language domains. To determine whether loss of plasticity remains a problem in the modern transformer-based LLM paradigm, we study plasticity loss in GPT-style Transformer models trained on a multilingual continual learning problem. Consistent with prior work, we find evidence of plasticity loss across models ranging from 5M to 314M non-embedding parameters, as measured by deterioration on a held-out Vietnamese probing task. We further find that the onset of plasticity loss follows a predictable scaling law, growing sublinearly with model size. These results suggest that larger models may delay the measurable effects of plasticity loss, but that increasing parameter count alone is likely to be insufficient to completely prevent it. We also find evidence of plasticity loss under stationary multilingual training, challenging the view that the phenomenon is exclusive to continual learning with abrupt task changes. Overall, our results suggest that even large Transformer language models trained on natural-language will eventually lose the ability to efficiently adapt to new data after sufficiently long training, in both continual and stationary settings.
Figures
Figures from the paper (9 more)
Reference graph
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Reviewed June 25, 2026 · model on record in the stance chip above.
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