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REVIEW 3 major objections 5 minor 1 cited by

Putting the Segment Anything Model to the Test with 3D Knee MRI - A Comparison with State-of-the-Art Performance

T0 review · 3 major / 5 minor · reviewed 2026-08-16 · deepseek-v4-flash

Pith's one-line read Fine-tuning only SAM's decoder is not enough to segment knee menisci; even full end-to-end training that matches 3D U-Net on Dice leaves SAM behind on morphology.

desk verdict Useful benchmark showing decoder-only SAM fine-tuning is not enough for 3D meniscus segmentation, but the morphology claim needs an artifact-controlled check. read the letter →

arxiv 2504.13340 v3 pith:Z7DAFZUQ submitted 2025-04-17 eess.IV cs.AIcs.CV

classification eess.IVcs.AIcs.CV
keywords meniscussegmentationSegmentAnythingModel(SAM)3DkneeMRIU-Netfine-tuningDicescoreHausdorffdistanceosteoarthritis
verification ladder T0 review T1 audit T2 compute T3 formal

The pith

A machine-rendered reading of the paper's core claim, the machinery that carries it, and where it could break.

The reading

The paper tests whether the Segment Anything Model (SAM), a widely used 2D segmentation foundation model, can be adapted to fully automatic segmentation of knee menisci in 3D MRI. It finds that fine-tuning only SAM's mask decoder, the cheapest adaptation, yields a Dice score of 0.81±0.03 on held-out scans, significantly below the 0.87±0.03 of a basic 3D U-Net. Training all of SAM's parameters end-to-end raises the Dice score to match the U-Net (0.87±0.03), on par with the winning score in the 2019 knee MRI segmentation challenge, but SAM still has larger Hausdorff distances and produces fragmented masks. If this is right, SAM's generalisability does not carry over to fine 3D structures with low contrast and unclear boundaries, and a simple 3D U-Net remains the safer practical choice.

What carries the argument

The central object is the Segment Anything Model in its base ViT configuration, treated as a 2D slice-wise segmenter: each 160-slice sagittal volume is split, each slice is bilinearly upsampled and padded to 1024×1024 and replicated to three channels, SAM runs without prompts and outputs one mask, and the slices are stacked back into a 3D volume. The comparison machinery is a 3D U-Net with 16 initial feature maps and three convolution blocks per encoder and decoder, trained from random weights. Two fine-tuning regimes isolate what carries the argument: a frozen image encoder with only the mask decoder trained (about 4 million parameters) versus full end-to-end training (about 94 million parameters). The metrics that carry the conclusions are Dice score for overlap, 95th-percentile Hausdorff distance for boundary morphology, and average transverse thickness difference as a biomarker-relevant quantity.

What would settle it

The claim would be settled by rerunning the same experiment on the same test volumes with one change: give SAM access to 3D context, either by volume-based prompting or by removing small disconnected components before scoring. If a 3D-aware SAM variant reaches a 95th-percentile Hausdorff distance at or below the 3D U-Net's 1.8 mm while keeping Dice at or above 0.87, the paper's conclusion would not survive; if the morphology gap persists under every reasonable 3D adaptation, the conclusion would be strengthened.

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Extended reading notes

Core claim

The paper's central claim is that SAM, when adapted to 3D knee MRI by processing sagittal slices independently, can reach but not exceed the Dice-score performance of a standard 3D U-Net for meniscus segmentation, and only when it is fine-tuned end-to-end. Decoder-only fine-tuning is insufficient: frozen SAM features do not carry enough task-relevant information for low-contrast menisci, producing 0.81 Dice versus the U-Net's 0.87. End-to-end fine-tuning restores overlap performance (0.87), matching the 0.88 winning score of the 2019 challenge, yet the 95th-percentile Hausdorff distance remains worse (2.4±1.4 mm versus 1.8±0.8 mm), and SAM predictions contain far more disconnected components, indicating inferior preservation of meniscus morphology. The paper concludes that SAM fine-tuning may therefore be unsuitable for segmentation of similar fine anatomical structures and for deriving morphological biomarkers from such segmentations.

Load-bearing premise

The load-bearing premise is that feeding SAM sagittal slices independently and stacking the resulting masks is a fair way to apply a 2D foundation model to a 3D knee MRI; if a 3D-aware adaptation would behave differently, the paper's conclusion about SAM's unsuitability would not follow.

Editorial extensions

If this is right

  • A 2D foundation model should not be assumed transferable to 3D medical segmentation of small, low-contrast structures; slice-wise application with a frozen encoder underperforms a basic 3D U-Net.
  • End-to-end fine-tuning of SAM can recover Dice-score parity with a 3D U-Net and with challenge-winning performance, making it a viable overlap-based baseline when full training is affordable.
  • If morphology matters, SAM's slice-wise masks are worse than U-Net's: the paper reports a mean Hausdorff distance of 2.4 mm versus 1.8 mm and an average of 10.2 versus 2.3 disconnected components, so SAM output would need more post-processing and could misrepresent geometry.
  • For meniscal thickness as a biomarker, both fully fine-tuned SAM and U-Net overestimate average thickness by sub-voxel amounts, so overlap-based parity does not automatically mean identical downstream biomarker estimates.

Reading between the lines

Editorial extensions of the paper, not claims the author makes directly.

  • Going beyond the paper: a volume-aware adaptation of SAM, such as joint 3D prompting, multi-slice attention, or connected-component post-processing, might erase the reported Dice and Hausdorff gaps, and the slice-wise protocol is the natural first thing to vary.
  • Going beyond the paper: the same comparison could be run on other small low-contrast joint structures, for example the acetabular labrum or spinal discs, to see whether the pattern is general or specific to menisci.
  • Going beyond the paper: because the ground truths came from a single expert annotating slice-wise, part of U-Net's Hausdorff advantage may reflect matching staircase-style annotation rather than true anatomy; a multi-rater or smooth ground-truth benchmark would test whether SAM's textured output is actually closer to real tissue shape.
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Editorial analysis

A structured set of objections, weighed in public.

Desk editor's note, referee report, and a circularity audit.

Referee Report

3 major / 5 minor

Summary. The paper evaluates two fine-tuning configurations of the Segment Anything Model (SAM) against a 3D U-Net for automatic meniscus segmentation in 3D knee MRI from the IWOAI 2019 dataset. The authors report that decoder-only fine-tuning (SAM 1) yields a Dice score of 0.81±0.03, described as significantly worse than the U-Net's 0.87±0.03, while end-to-end fine-tuning (SAM 2) reaches 0.87±0.03, comparable to the U-Net and to the IWOAI winning score. On the 95th-percentile Hausdorff distance, both SAM variants are inferior to the U-Net, leading the authors to conclude that SAM may not be suitable for similar fine-structure, low-contrast 3D segmentation tasks. The experiments use consistent splits with the challenge, a held-out test set, and multiple metrics; code is provided.

Significance. If the findings hold, the paper makes a useful empirical contribution to the debate on foundation models for medical imaging: it shows that decoder-only fine-tuning is insufficient for low-contrast small structures, and that end-to-end fine-tuning can match a well-trained 3D U-Net on Dice but leaves a residual morphology gap. The study is clearly designed, uses a public dataset and challenge splits, and releases code. The main claims, however, rest on a small test set and on a Hausdorff comparison that may be affected by removable isolated predictions; also, the 'significantly worse' statement is not formally tested.

major comments (3)
  1. [Section 4 (Conclusion) and Abstract] The claim that SAM 1 'performed significantly worse' than the 3D U-Net is not supported by a statistical test. With n=28 test volumes, the reported Dice difference (0.81±0.03 vs 0.87±0.03) should be accompanied by a paired test, bootstrap confidence interval, or a non-parametric alternative. The same applies to the Hausdorff-distance comparisons in Table 2. Without such an analysis, the reader cannot judge whether the observed differences are beyond sampling variation.
  2. [Section 3, Table 2, and Figure 5] The Hausdorff-distance evidence for morphological inferiority of SAM is confounded by the isolated prediction components acknowledged in the text (10.2 connected components for SAM 2 versus 2.3 for the U-Net). The 95th-percentile Hausdorff distance is highly sensitive to exactly these spurious islands. Please apply a largest-connected-component filter or a small-component removal step to both models' outputs and re-report Dice and Hausdorff distances. If the gap persists, the morphology claim is strengthened; if it closes, the conclusion that SAM 'is inferior ... in preserving the spatial features of the menisci' would need to be revised or conditioned on the absence of post-processing.
  3. [Section 4 (Conclusion) and Section 2.4] The generalization that SAM 'may not be suitable for similar 3D medical image segmentation tasks' is too broad for a study that tests only a slice-wise 2D adaptation of SAM. The paper does not compare against a 2D U-Net trained on the same slices, nor does it evaluate a 3D-aware adaptation or volume-based prompting. Adding a 2D U-Net baseline (or a 3D SAM variant) would isolate whether the observed gap is intrinsic to SAM or an artifact of the 2D/3D interface. Without this control, the conclusion should be tempered to the specific slice-wise adaptation evaluated here.
minor comments (5)
  1. [Table 2] The table contains formatting artifacts, such as '000...888777±±± 000...000333', which should be cleaned to read '0.87±0.03'.
  2. [Section 3, first paragraph] The winning IWOAI Dice score is reported as '0.88±0.3'; given the other reported standard deviations, this is almost certainly a typo for '0.88±0.03'.
  3. [Section 3.1] The word 'detatched' should be 'detached' in the sentence describing the separated medial meniscus.
  4. [Section 2.4] The description 'Three copies of this upsampled image were concatenated' is clear, but it would be helpful to state explicitly that this creates the required 3-channel RGB input for SAM.
  5. [Section 2.5.3] The average transverse thickness metric would benefit from a precise definition of 'non-zero columns in the transverse plane', including whether medial and lateral menisci are considered jointly or separately.

Circularity Check

0 steps flagged · score 0.0 of 10

No significant circularity: the paper is a held-out empirical benchmark whose claims are supported by direct evaluation against manual ground truth, not by a self-referential derivation.

full rationale

The paper reports a comparative benchmark: SAM fine-tuned in two configurations and a 3D U-Net are trained on fixed train/validation splits and evaluated on a held-out test set (Section 2.1). Dice score, 95th-percentile Hausdorff distance, and average transverse thickness are computed directly from predicted masks against manual ground truths (Sections 2.5 and 2.6, Table 2). No parameter is fitted to the test data, and no claim is derived from an equation that includes the target result as an input. The only self-citation with overlapping authorship is Dube et al. (ref [10]), a meniscal thickness biomarker study cited to motivate why thickness is a clinically relevant measurement; it is not load-bearing for any prediction or comparison. Concerns about slice-wise 2D adaptation or the absence of connected-component post-processing are methodological validity issues, not circularity. The central Dice comparison is also externally anchored to the IWOAI 2019 challenge winner (0.88 ± 0.03), which is independent of the present paper's fitted values. Therefore no specific reduction of a prediction to an input or to a self-citation chain can be exhibited.

Assumptions & free parameters 5 free parameters · 5 assumptions · 0 invented entities

The central claim rests on the evaluation pipeline rather than on new theoretical constructs. Free parameters are the training hyperparameters and preprocessing thresholds chosen from validation data. No invented entities are introduced.

free parameters (5)
  • Learning rate = SAM 1: 5e-6, SAM 2: 5e-7, 3D U-Net: 1e-3
    Selected via random grid search on the validation set (Section 2.6).
  • Batch size = SAM 1: 8, SAM 2: 16, 3D U-Net: 4
    Selected via random grid search on the validation set (Section 2.6).
  • Initial feature maps for 3D U-Net = 16
    Number of kernels in the first convolution block, chosen by grid search (Sections 2.3 and 2.6).
  • Intensity windowing threshold = Clipping window [0, 0.005]
    Determined after viewing the intensity distribution of the images (Section 2.2).
  • Crop region = 200x256x160, ~20 voxel margin
    Selected so all train/validation meniscus masks fall inside it; test images cropped identically (Section 2.2).
assumptions (5)
  • domain assumption Manual segmentations of menisci by a single expert from Stryker Imorphics are treated as ground truth.
    Underlies all evaluation metrics; the authors acknowledge potential bias from single-expert annotation (Section 3.1).
  • domain assumption The OAI-IWOAI 2019 subset is representative of the meniscus segmentation task in knee OA.
    Used for training and evaluation; the authors note most menisci are intact, limiting generalization to degenerate cases (Section 3).
  • ad hoc to paper Slice-wise 2D processing of SAM is a fair adaptation to 3D MRI.
    SAM is 2D; the authors split volumes into 160 slices and stack predictions. The paper's suitability conclusion depends on this adaptation (Section 2.4).
  • ad hoc to paper Windowed intensity range and cropping preserve relevant contrast for meniscus segmentation.
    Preprocessing tuned on training data intensity distribution and mask locations (Section 2.2).
  • domain assumption Dice, 95% Hausdorff distance, and average transverse thickness capture clinically meaningful segmentation quality.
    Standard metrics; the authors use the 95% percentile to reduce outlier sensitivity (Section 2.5).

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Cite this review

Pith. "Pith review of Putting the Segment Anything Model to the Test with 3D Knee MRI - A Comparison with State-of-the-Art Performance." pith.science (2026). https://pith.science/paper/Z7DAFZUQ

@misc{pith2026250413340,
  author       = {Pith},
  title        = {Pith review of: Putting the Segment Anything Model to the Test with 3D Knee MRI - A Comparison with State-of-the-Art Performance},
  year         = {2026},
  howpublished = {\url{https://pith.science/paper/Z7DAFZUQ}},
  note         = {Machine review of arXiv:2504.13340}
}
abstract

Menisci are cartilaginous tissue found within the knee that contribute to joint lubrication and weight dispersal. Damage to menisci can lead to onset and progression of knee osteoarthritis (OA), a condition that is a leading cause of disability, and for which there are few effective therapies. Accurate automated segmentation of menisci would allow for earlier detection and treatment of meniscal abnormalities, as well as shedding more light on the role the menisci play in OA pathogenesis. Focus in this area has mainly used variants of convolutional networks, but there has been no attempt to utilise recent large vision transformer segmentation models. The Segment Anything Model (SAM) is a so-called foundation segmentation model, which has been found useful across a range of different tasks due to the large volume of data used for training the model. In this study, SAM was adapted to perform fully-automated segmentation of menisci from 3D knee magnetic resonance images. A 3D U-Net was also trained as a baseline. It was found that, when fine-tuning only the decoder, SAM was unable to compete with 3D U-Net, achieving a Dice score of $0.81\pm0.03$, compared to $0.87\pm0.03$, on a held-out test set. When fine-tuning SAM end-to-end, a Dice score of $0.87\pm0.03$ was achieved. The performance of both the end-to-end trained SAM configuration and the 3D U-Net were comparable to the winning Dice score ($0.88\pm0.03$) in the IWOAI Knee MRI Segmentation Challenge 2019. Performance in terms of the Hausdorff Distance showed that both configurations of SAM were inferior to 3D U-Net in matching the meniscus morphology. Results demonstrated that, despite its generalisability, SAM was unable to outperform a basic 3D U-Net in meniscus segmentation, and may not be suitable for similar 3D medical image segmentation tasks also involving fine anatomical structures with low contrast and poorly-defined boundaries.

Figures

Figures reproduced from arXiv: 2504.13340 by the authors.

Figure 1
Figure 1. Preprocessing steps performed on the MR Images before model training. Win [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p004_1.png] view at source ↗
Figure 2
Figure 2. Violin plots showing the distributions of the dice score (a) and Hausdorff distance [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p006_2.png] view at source ↗
Figure 3
Figure 3. Bland-Altman plots showing the difference in transverse thickness between masks [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p007_3.png] view at source ↗
Figures from the paper (2 more)
Figure 4
Figure 4. Figure 4: Two atypical examples from the test dataset that visually compare the masks pre [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p008_4.png]
Figure 5
Figure 5. Figure 5: Surface mesh representations of the worst-performing (Dice score) predicted [PITH_FULL_IMAGE:figures/full_fig_p009_5.png]

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Forward citations

Cited by 1 Pith paper

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  1. A Systematic Benchmark of Intensity Normalisation Methods for 3D Knee MRI Segmentation and Cross-Domain Generalisability

    cs.CV 2026-07 conditional novelty 5.0 of 10

    For knee MRI meniscus segmentation, intensity normalisation choice causes ~1% external DSC differences while dataset shift causes ~10%, so normalisation is a minor lever for generalisability.

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Pith tools

Reviewed August 16, 2026 · model on record in the stance chip above.