REVIEW 2 major objections 4 minor 45 references
Second-order AAA algorithms for structured data-driven modeling
T0 review · 2 major / 4 minor · reviewed 2026-08-07 · deepseek-v4-flash
Pith's one-line read Three greedy algorithms fit second-order mechanical models straight from frequency data.
desk verdict A genuinely useful second-order AAA extension with shipped code and an honest heuristic analysis, but Eq (47) has a missing w_j in the SO-AAA Jacobian that has to be fixed. read the letter →
The pith
A machine-rendered reading of the paper's core claim, the machinery that carries it, and where it could break.
The reading
What carries the argument
The key object is the second-order structured barycentric form (14), where each pair $(\lambda_j, \sigma_j)$ generates a quadratic pole structure and the transfer function automatically has the form $c^T (s^2 I + s D + K)^{-1} b$. The greedy selection is the AAA maximum-error sample choice; the least-squares fit is done through the Loewner-like matrix $L_{\mathrm{SO}}$ with entries $(g_i - h_j)/((\mu_i - \lambda_j)(\mu_i - \sigma_j))$ and, for NSO-AAA, replaced by the current model value $H_{\mathrm{SO}}(\mu_i)$. The quasi-support points $\sigma_j$ are initialized far in the left half-plane by $\sigma_j = c - i\,\mathrm{Im}(\lambda_j)$, and Theorem 2 shows that as $|\mathrm{Re}(\sigma_j)| \to \infty$ the second-order model converges to the unstructured AAA model, giving an upper bound heuristic for the structured methods' error.
What would settle it
Rerun the gyroscope experiment with $\sigma_j$ moved into the right half-plane or exactly on the imaginary axis, and observe whether SO-AAA's and NSO-AAA's frequency errors collapse; the same experiment with the acoustic cavity would show whether the accuracy gain comes from the structure or from the initial pole placement.
Extended reading notes
Core claim
The paper's central claim is that the structured second-order barycentric form $H_{\mathrm{SO}}(s) = \frac{\sum_{j=1}^k h_j w_j}{\prod (s-\lambda_j)(s-\sigma_j)}$ over the same sum in the denominator can be driven by the AAA greedy selection: pick the next support point as the current model's worst-data point, then fit the barycentric weights (and quasi-support points) by least squares. The authors introduce three algorithms: LSO-AAA leaves the $\sigma_j$ fixed so each iteration is one linear solve, SO-AAA uses variable projection on the separable residual with Jacobians derived from the Loewner-like matrix, and NSO-AAA solves the fully nonlinear residual with Wirtinger calculus. In the numerical examples, SO-AAA and NSO-AAA typically give much smaller errors than unstructured AAA at the same model order, and in the acoustic-cavity example they even beat AAA at twice the order.
Load-bearing premise
The whole accuracy story depends on the quasi-support point initialization $\sigma_j = c - i\,\mathrm{Im}(\lambda_j)$ with a single hand-picked far-left constant $c$; LSO-AAA never moves these points, and the two nonlinear variants merely start from them and may settle in poor local minima.
Editorial extensions
If this is right
- Practitioners who only have frequency-domain data of a mechanical, acoustic, or electrical structure can obtain a model that retains mass-damper-stiffness form, ready for physical interpretation and time-domain simulation.
- The adaptive greedy order selection gives a principled stopping criterion: keep adding support points until a user-set tolerance on the weighted data error is met.
- The theory predicts that the structured methods cannot be much worse than unstructured AAA at the same order, because the $\sigma_j$ initialization reproduces the AAA model when the quasi-support points are far enough from the data.
- The realification section supplies real-matrix state-space realizations, so the learned models can pass directly to standard time integrators and control design tools.
- For applications needing very fast model updates, LSO-AAA performs a single linear least-squares solve per order, with accuracy essentially matching classical AAA at equal order.
Reading between the lines
- A testable next step is to apply the $\sigma_j$ initialization rule to other structure-preserving barycentric forms (damped, gyroscopic, or second-order with multiple inputs), since the theorem's mechanism only uses the partial-fraction expansion and the far-field limit of the quasi-support points.
- The observed discrepancy between the separable cost and the true nonlinear error suggests a diagnostic: track both the optimization objective and a validation error, and stop when the two decouple, which practitioners could automate in a wrapper around the method.
- The gyroscope example hints that NSO-AAA may lose to SO-AAA when transfer-function magnitudes span many orders of magnitude; a plausible extension is to rescale or frequency-warp the data before the fully nonlinear fit to keep gradient computations well conditioned.
- Formal guarantees for the greedy selection would likely require an equioscillation or Kolmogorov-type condition on the second-order model class; the paper's heuristics give the floor and ceiling but not a certificate for the greedy step.
Editorial analysis
A structured set of objections, weighed in public.
Referee Report
Summary. The paper develops three variants of the AAA algorithm for fitting second-order state-space models to frequency response data. The methods share a greedy interpolation step that selects support points from the data, and differ in how they determine the barycentric weights and quasi-support points: LSO-AAA fixes the quasi-support points and solves a linear least-squares problem, SO-AAA uses a separable (linearized) residual with variable projection, and NSO-AAA solves the fully nonlinear residual. The authors also provide representability results (Lemmas 2-3, Theorem 1), an error heuristic driven by the behavior of the second-order barycentric form when the quasi-support points move far into the left half-plane (Theorem 2), and a construction of real state-space realizations. Three numerical examples (sandwich beam, butterfly gyroscope, acoustic cavity) compare the proposed methods against unstructured AAA and against AAA with twice the order.
Significance. If the technical issues are resolved, this is a valuable contribution to structured data-driven modeling. The central idea of imposing second-order differential structure through a barycentric form is natural and useful, and the three algorithmic variants offer a practical speed-accuracy trade-off. The paper is generally well written, and the provision of open source code and data (Zenodo) is a genuine strength. The representability lemmas and the structural comparison to unstructured AAA provide useful insight. The numerical experiments cover relevant benchmarks and show that the nonlinear variants often outperform unstructured AAA at the same order, which supports the motivating claim. The main weakness is that the derivation of the SO-AAA Jacobian contains an error that affects the algorithm's correctness, and this must be fixed and validated before the results can be fully trusted.
major comments (2)
- [Section 4.2, Eq. (47)] Equation (47) is incorrect: it omits the barycentric weight w_j in the Jacobian of the separable residual with respect to the quasi-support point σ_j. From Eq. (43c), the residual entry is r_i = η_i (Σ_j w_j (h_j − g_i)/((μ_i − λ_j)(μ_i − σ_j)) − g_i) = −η_i (Σ_j w_j [L_SO]_{i,j} + g_i). Differentiating with respect to σ_j gives ∂r_i/∂σ_j = −η_i w_j [L_SO]_{i,j}/(μ_i − σ_j). The factor w_j is missing in Eq. (47). This is not a harmless typo because the weights change at every iteration and affect the descent direction and fixed points of the Gauss-Newton/VarPro iteration. The analogous Jacobian for NSO-AAA in Eq. (55) contains the w_j factor, and the realification version of the SO-AAA Jacobian in Eq. (98) again omits it. The authors should confirm whether the released code implements Eq. (47) as printed or uses a corrected Jacobian; if the printed formula was used, the SO-AAA results in Section 7 must be recomputed with a correct Jacobian.
- [Section 4.2, text after Eq. (45)] The text says 'We observed that this selection causes the objective function (45) to decrease monotonically as the order of approximation k increases' and the value of the offset c in Eq. (46) is chosen as −10^5 in the experiments. This is an empirical observation, not a proven property, and the convergence of SO-AAA and the accuracy of LSO-AAA (which never moves σ_j) depend on this heuristic. The theoretical analysis in Section 5.2 only provides an asymptotic statement as min_j |Re(σ_j)| → ∞. The paper should state clearly that the monotonicity claim and the specific choice of c are heuristics without a rigorous guarantee, and ideally add a brief experiment on the sensitivity to c.
minor comments (4)
- [Section 6, Eq. (89b) and Eq. (101b)] In Eq. (89b) and Eq. (101b), the entry for row 2i, column 2j is written as [L]_{2i−1,2j−1}, which is the same index as the first entry of the previous line. The intended entry is presumably [L]_{2i,2j} = −Re(α_{i,j} − β_{i,j} in Eq. (89b) and the analogous correction in Eq. (101b).
- [Section 2.3, first paragraph] The abstract and Section 2 contain the typo 'varibale' instead of 'variable' in 'varibale projection method'.
- [Section 5.2, Theorem 2] The theorem states the limit in the L∞ norm but does not specify the domain (the imaginary axis is clear from the proof but should be stated in the theorem). Also, the condition 'if L† has constant rank in some open neighborhood' is imprecise about the neighborhood (of what? presumably the limit point at infinity); a more careful statement would help.
- [Section 6, text before Eq. (96)] There is a typo 'matirx' instead of 'matrix' in the sentence introducing the notation L_SO = L_SO(P_SO, M).
Circularity Check
No significant circularity: the derivation is self-contained given the published structured barycentric form [16], and the heuristic claims are explicitly empirical.
full rationale
Walking the derivation chain, the central objects are the second-order barycentric form (14) and realization (16), imported from the authors' earlier published paper [16]. That is a prior peer-reviewed derivation, not an unverified self-citation invoked to forbid alternatives, and the present paper derives its own algorithmic consequences: the greedy selection, the linearized residual (43), the VarPro formulation (45), the Jacobians (47) and (54)-(56), the realification in Section 6, and the switching results in Lemmas 2-3 and Theorem 1. The sigma initialization heuristic (46) is explicitly empirical and is not used to prove the main accuracy claims; Theorem 2 is a direct limit statement showing LSO-AAA approaches AAA as sigma moves far into the left half-plane, and it is derived rather than assumed. The upper-bound heuristics in Section 5.2 are presented as heuristics, and the paper itself flags in the conclusions that simplified cost functions can misalign with true errors. Numerical validation is against external benchmarks (sandwich beam, butterfly gyroscope, acoustic cavity) with standard AAA and AAA2 baselines and released code and data. The only substantive issue noticed is a likely missing w_j factor in the published Jacobian (47) when compared with (55); that is a correctness or typographical concern, not circular reasoning, so it does not affect the circularity score.
Assumptions & free parameters
free parameters (3)
- Quasi-support points sigma_j =
Optimized per iteration; initialized as c - i Im(lambda_k)
- Initialization offset c =
-10^5 in experiments
- Initial barycentric weight w_k in NSO-AAA =
-1
assumptions (5)
- domain assumption The second-order barycentric form (14) can represent transfer functions of second-order systems (1) under mild assumptions.
- standard math Any irreducible strictly proper rational function of degree k can be represented by the interpolatory barycentric form (6).
- standard math The Loewner matrix L in (11) has full rank for data from a degree-k rational function.
- standard math The pseudoinverse is continuous where the matrix has constant rank.
- ad hoc to paper Initializing sigma_k far in the left half-plane makes the objective (45) decrease monotonically in k.
Cite this review
Pith. "Pith review of Second-order AAA algorithms for structured data-driven modeling." pith.science (2026). https://pith.science/paper/LEUHUTZ5
@misc{pith2026250602241,
author = {Pith},
title = {Pith review of: Second-order AAA algorithms for structured data-driven modeling},
year = {2026},
howpublished = {\url{https://pith.science/paper/LEUHUTZ5}},
note = {Machine review of arXiv:2506.02241}
}
read the original abstract
The data-driven modeling of dynamical systems has become an essential tool for the construction of accurate computational models from real-world data. In this process, the inherent differential structures underlying the considered physical phenomena are often neglected making the reinterpretation of the learned models in a physically meaningful sense very challenging. In this work, we present three data-driven modeling approaches for the construction of dynamical systems with second-order differential structure directly from frequency domain data. Based on the second-order structured barycentric form, we extend the well-known Adaptive Antoulas-Anderson algorithm to the case of second-order systems. Depending on the available computational resources, we propose variations of the proposed method that prioritize either higher computation speed or greater modeling accuracy, and we present a theoretical analysis for the expected accuracy and performance of the proposed methods. Three numerical examples demonstrate the effectiveness of our new structured approaches in comparison to classical unstructured data-driven modeling.
Reference graph
Works this paper leans on
-
[1]
R. Abraham and J. E. Marsden.Foundations of Mechanics. Addison-Wesley Publishing Company, Inc., Redwood City, second edition, 1987. URL:https: //resolver.caltech.edu/CaltechBOOK:1987.001
work page 1987
-
[2]
Second-order AAA algorithms for structured data-driven modeling
M. S. Ackermann and S. W. R. Werner. Code, data and results for numerical ex- periments in “Second-order AAA algorithms for structured data-driven modeling” (version 1.0), June 2025.doi:10.5281/zenodo.15389438
-
[3]
A. C. Antoulas and B. D. O. Anderson. On the scalar rational interpolation problem. IMA J. Math. Control Inf., 3(2–3):61–88, 1986.doi:10.1093/imamci/3.2-3.61
-
[4]
Q. Aumann and S. W. R. Werner. Structured model order reduction for vibro-acoustic problems using interpolation and balancing methods.J. Sound Vib., 543:117363, 2023.doi:10.1016/j.jsv.2022.117363
-
[5]
Q. Aumann and S. W. R. Werner. Adaptive choice of near-optimal expansion points for interpolation-based structure-preserving model reduction.Adv. Comput. Math., 50(4):79, 2024.doi:10.1007/s10444-024-10166-z
-
[6]
M. Berljafa and S. G¨ uttel. Generalized rational Krylov decompositions with an appli- cation to rational approximation.SIAM J. Matrix Anal. Appl., 36(2):894–916, 2015. doi:10.1137/140998081
-
[7]
M. Berljafa and S. G¨ uttel. The RKFIT algorithm for nonlinear rational approxima- tion.SIAM J. Sci. Comput., 39(5):A2049–A2071, 2017.doi:10.1137/15M1025426. Preprint. 2025-06-02 Ackermann, Gosea, Gugercin, Werner: Second-order AAA algorithms35
-
[8]
F. Betz, M. Hammerschmidt, L. Zschiedrich, S. Burger, and F. Binkowski. Efficient rational approximation of optical response functions with the AAA algorithm.Laser Photonics Rev., 18(11):2400584, 2024.doi:10.1002/lpor.202400584
Show all 45 references
-
[9]
D. Billger. The butterfly gyro. In P. Benner, V. Mehrmann, and D. C. Sorensen, editors,Dimension Reduction of Large-Scale Systems, volume 45 ofLect. Notes Com- put. Sci. Eng., pages 349–352. Springer, Berlin, Heidelberg, 2005.doi:10.1007/ 3-540-27909-1_18
2005
-
[10]
Blaabjerg.Control of Power Electronic Converters and Systems: Volume 2
F. Blaabjerg.Control of Power Electronic Converters and Systems: Volume 2. Aca- demic Press, London, 2018.doi:10.1016/C2017-0-04756-0
2018 doi
-
[11]
Bradde, S
T. Bradde, S. Grivet-Talocia, Q. Aumann, and I. V. Gosea. A modified AAA algo- rithm for learning stable reduced-order models from data.J. Sci. Comput., 103(1):14, 2025.doi:10.1007/s10915-025-02825-0
2025 doi
-
[12]
Drmaˇ c, S
Z. Drmaˇ c, S. Gugercin, and C. Beattie. Quadrature-based vector fitting for discretized H2 approximation.SIAM J. Sci. Comput., 37(2):A625–A652, 2015.doi:10.1137/ 140961511
2015
-
[13]
Gillot, S
R. Gillot, S. Gallagher, A. Picarelli, and M. Dempsey. Model reduction techniques applied to a physical vehicle model for HiL testing.Link¨ oping Electronic Conference Proceedings, 132(32):299–306, 2017. Proceedings of the 12th International Modelica Conference, Prague, Czech ...
2017 doi
-
[14]
Golub and V
G. Golub and V. Pereyra. Separable nonlinear least squares: the variable projection method and its applications.Inverse Probl., 19(2):R1–R26, 2003.doi:10.1088/ 0266-5611/19/2/201
2003
-
[15]
G. H. Golub and V Pereyra. The differentiation of pseudo-inverses and nonlinear least squares problems whose variables separate.SIAM J. Numer. Anal., 10(2):413–432, 1973.doi:10.1137/0710036
1973 doi
-
[16]
I. V. Gosea, S. Gugercin, and S. W. R. Werner. Structured barycentric forms for interpolation-based data-driven reduced modeling of second-order systems.Adv. Comput. Math., 50(2):26, 2024.doi:10.1007/s10444-024-10118-7
2024 doi
-
[17]
Gustavsen and A
B. Gustavsen and A. Semlyen. Rational approximation of frequency domain responses by vector fitting.IEEE Trans. Power Del., 14(3):1052–1061, 1999.doi:10.1109/ 61.772353
1999
-
[18]
C. Himpe. Comparing (empirical-Gramian-based) model order reduction algorithms. In P. Benner, T. Breiten, H. Faßbender, M. Hinze, T. Stykel, and R. Zimmermann, editors,Model Reduction of Complex Dynamical Systems, volume 171 ofInternational Series of Numerical Mathematics, pag...
2021 doi
-
[19]
A. Hochman. FastAAA: A fast rational-function fitter. In2017 IEEE 26th Conference on Electrical Performance of Electronic Packaging and Systems (EPEPS), pages 1–3, 2017.doi:10.1109/EPEPS.2017.8329756
2017
-
[20]
L. Kaufman. A variable projection method for solving separable nonlinear least squares problems.BIT Numer. Math., 15(1):49–57, 1975.doi:10.1007/BF01932995. Preprint. 2025-06-02 Ackermann, Gosea, Gugercin, Werner: Second-order AAA algorithms36
1975 doi
- [21]
- [22]
-
[23]
F. T. Krogh. Efficient implementation of a variable projection algorithm for nonlinear least squares problems.Commun. ACM, 17(3):167–169, 1994.doi:10.1145/360860. 360914
1994 doi
-
[24]
Lobontiu.System Dynamics for Engineering Students: Concepts and Applications
N. Lobontiu.System Dynamics for Engineering Students: Concepts and Applications. Academic Press, London, second edition, 2018.doi:10.1016/C2011-0-05346-2
2018 doi
-
[25]
A. J. Mayo and A. C. Antoulas. A framework for the solution of the generalized realization problem.Linear Algebra Appl., 425(2–3):634–662, 2007. Special issue in honor of P. A. Fuhrmann, Edited by A. C. Antoulas, U. Helmke, J. Rosenthal, V. Vinnikov, and E. Zerz.doi:10.1016/j....
2007 doi
-
[26]
Monz´ on, W
L. Monz´ on, W. Johns, S. Iyengar, M. Reynolds, J. Maack, and K. Prabakar. A multi-function AAA algorithm applied to frequency dependent line modeling. In 2020 IEEE Power & Energy Society General Meeting (PESGM), pages 1–5, 2020. doi:10.1109/PESGM41954.2020.9281536
2020
-
[27]
Nakatsukasa, O
Y. Nakatsukasa, O. S` ete, and L. N. Trefethen. The AAA algorithm for rational approximation.SIAM J. Sci. Comput., 40(3):A1494–A1522, 2018.doi:10.1137/ 16M1106122
2018
-
[28]
Butterfly gyroscope
Oberwolfach Benchmark Collection. Butterfly gyroscope. hosted at MORwiki – Model Order Reduction Wiki, 2004. URL:http://modelreduction.org/index. php/Butterfly_Gyroscope
2004
-
[29]
D. P. O’Leary and B. W. Rust. Variable projection for nonlinear least squares problems.Comput. Optim. Appl., 54(3):579–593, 2013.doi:10.1007/ s10589-012-9492-9
2013
-
[30]
Pontes Duff, P
I. Pontes Duff, P. Goyal, and P. Benner. Data-driven identification of Rayleigh- damped second-order systems. In C. Beattie, P. Benner, M. Embree, S. Gugercin, and S. Lefteriu, editors,Realization and Model Reduction of Dynamical Systems, pages 255–272. Springer, Cham, 2022.do...
2022 doi
-
[31]
A. C. Rodriguez, L. Balicki, and S. Gugercin. The p-AAA algorithm for data-driven modeling of parametric dynamical systems.SIAM J. Sci. Comput., 45(3):A1332– A1358, 2023.doi:10.1137/20M1322698
2023 doi
-
[32]
Ruhe and P
A. Ruhe and P. ˚A. Wedin. Algorithms for separable nonlinear least squares problems. SIAM Rev., 22(3):318–337, 1980.doi:10.1137/1022057
1980 doi
-
[33]
Rumpler, P
R. Rumpler, P. G¨ oransson, and J.-F. De¨ u. A finite element approach combining a reduced-order system, Pad´ e approximants, and an adaptive frequency windowing for fast multi-frequency solution of poro-acoustic problems.Int. J. Numer. Methods Eng., 97(10):759–784, 2014.doi:1...
2014 doi
-
[34]
S. Saxena. Load frequency control strategy via fractional-order controller and reduced-order modeling.Int. J. Electr. Power Energy Syst., 104:603–614, 2019. doi:10.1016/j.ijepes.2018.07.005
2019 doi
-
[35]
Schulze, B
P. Schulze, B. Unger, C. Beattie, and S. Gugercin. Data-driven structured realization. Linear Algebra Appl., 537:250–286, 2018.doi:10.1016/j.laa.2017.09.030
2018 doi
-
[36]
Sorber, M
L. Sorber, M. Van Barel, and L. De Lathauwer. Unconstrained optimization of real functions in complex variables.SIAM J. Optim., 22(3):879–898, 2012.doi:10.1137/ 110832124
2012
-
[37]
G. W. Stewart. On the continuity of the generalized inverse.SIAM J. Appl. Math., 17(1):33–45, 1969.doi:10.1137/0117004
1969 doi
-
[38]
F. Tao, H. Zhang, and C. Zhang. Advancements and challenges of digital twins in in- dustry.Nat. Comput. Sci., 4(3):169–177, 2024.doi:10.1038/s43588-024-00603-w
2024 doi
-
[39]
Tisseur and K
F. Tisseur and K. Meerbergen. The quadratic eigenvalue problem.SIAM Rev., 43(2):235–286, 2001.doi:10.1137/S0036144500381988
2001 doi
-
[40]
Van Beeumen, K
R. Van Beeumen, K. Meerbergen, and W. Michiels. A rational Krylov method based on Hermite interpolation for nonlinear eigenvalue problems.SIAM J. Sci. Comput., 35(1):A327–A350, 2013.doi:10.1137/120877556
2013 doi
-
[41]
Vervliet, O
N. Vervliet, O. Debals, L. Sorber, M. Van Barel, and L. De Lathauwer. Tensorlab 3.0, March 2016. URL:https://tensorlab.net/
2016
-
[42]
S. W. R. Werner.Structure-Preserving Model Reduction for Mechanical Systems. Dissertation, Otto-von-Guericke-Universit¨ at, Magdeburg, Germany, 2021.doi:10. 25673/38617
2021
-
[43]
S. W. R. Werner, I. V. Gosea, and S. Gugercin. Structured vector fitting framework for mechanical systems.IF AC-Pap., 55(20):163–168, 2022. 10th Vienna International Conference on Mathematical Modelling MATHMOD 2022.doi:10.1016/j.ifacol. 2022.09.089
2022 doi
-
[44]
Willcox and B
K. Willcox and B. Segundo. The role of computational science in digital twins.Nat. Comput. Sci., 4(3):147–149, 2024.doi:10.1038/s43588-024-00609-4
2024 doi
-
[45]
Wirtinger
W. Wirtinger. Zur formalen Theorie der Funktionen von mehr komplexen Ver¨ ander- lichen.Math. Ann., 97(1):357–375, 1927.doi:10.1007/BF01447872. Preprint. 2025-06-02
1927 doi
Reviewed August 7, 2026 · model on record in the stance chip above.
Discussion (0). Sign in to comment.