REVIEW 3 major objections 5 minor 49 references
Under an identical training and evaluation protocol, the state-space models SegMamba and SegMambaV2 deliver the best global accuracy on both brain tumor segmentation benchmarks.
Reviewed by Pith at T0; open to challenge. T0 means a machine referee read the full paper against a public rubric. the ladder, T0–T4 →
T0 review · deepseek-v4-flash
2026-08-03 01:27 UTC pith:3QNREC67
load-bearing objection Useful benchmark with an honest protocol, but the headline claim that SSM architectures win outruns the evidence: the Mamba models were modified relative to their published designs and trained with different hyperparameters. the 3 major comments →
A Unified Benchmark of Deep Learning Models for Multi-task 3D Brain Tumor Segmentation from Magnetic Resonance Imaging
The pith
A machine-rendered reading of the paper's core claim, the machinery that carries it, and where it could break.
Core claim
Under a single, deliberately homogeneous training and evaluation protocol — same data splits, preprocessing, augmentation, loss, optimizer, crop size, and sliding-window inference — the paper reports that the state-space architectures SegMamba and SegMambaV2 consistently outperform the convolutional baselines (3D U-Net, SegResNet) and the Transformer baseline (Swin UNETR) on both datasets. On BraTS 2023, SegMambaV2 reaches a global Dice of 0.7245 and SegMamba 0.7116, versus 0.6737–0.6987 for the CNN/Transformer models; on BraTS 2024, SegMambaV2 reaches 0.7559 and SegMamba 0.7533, versus 0.7142–0.7391. The SSMs also post the lowest 95th-percentile Hausdorff distances, indicating better bounda
What carries the argument
The load-bearing instrument is the protocol itself: a fixed pipeline of preprocessing, augmentation, Dice-plus-cross-entropy loss, AdamW optimization, 128-cube cropping, and sliding-window inference, applied unchanged to all five models with five-fold cross-validation. The two state-space models replace self-attention with near-linear state-space sequence modeling: SegMamba uses tri-oriented spatial Mamba blocks, and SegMambaV2 adds hierarchical-scale downsampling and ortho-oriented Mamba. What this mechanism does is isolate, as far as the protocol allows, the architectural family as the independent variable, so performance gaps can be attributed to design rather than to differences in data
Load-bearing premise
The conclusion that state-space architectures are inherently better rests on the assumption that the SegMamba and SegMambaV2 implementations used here faithfully represent those published models and that their altered training recipe — a tenfold lower learning rate and gradient clipping — does not itself cause the performance gap.
What would settle it
Retrain SegMamba and SegMambaV2 with the published FUE module, gated multiplication, and hierarchical-scale downsampling restored, at the same 1e-4 learning rate used for the other models, and compare Dice on BraTS 2023 and BraTS 2024; if the gap narrows or reverses, the claim of architectural superiority is unsupported.
If this is right
- If state-space architectures genuinely lead under homogeneous conditions, future 3D medical-segmentation work can treat the SegMamba family as a stronger default than Transformer or CNN baselines for accuracy-critical tasks.
- The two-dataset pattern suggests the state-space advantage is not tied to one tumor type or acquisition scenario, since the ranking holds for both compact meningiomas and distorted post-treatment gliomas.
- SegMambaV2 is the best high-accuracy choice where inference speed matters, while SegMamba offers a lighter-parameter alternative with nearly the same accuracy.
- For hardware-constrained deployment, SegResNet remains the practical mid-point: near-sub-second inference and competitive Dice at a fraction of the parameters of the SSMs and Transformer.
- Swin UNETR's per-sub-region wins indicate that Transformer attention may still be preferable when a specific tumor component is the clinical priority, even if global metrics favor SSMs.
Where Pith is reading between the lines
- Editorial inference: The comparison with challenge leaderboards suggests the local protocol understates what these architectures can do with full training data; an obvious extension is to rerun the exact benchmark using the complete training sets and official validation annotations, which would test whether the SSM advantage persists when more data is available.
- Editorial inference: Because the released SegMamba code omits the FUE module and replaces gated multiplication with addition, and SegMambaV2 approximates its downsampling with a plain convolution, the 'SegMamba family' tested here is really a partially reimplemented variant; a faithful reimplementation could shift the reported gaps.
- Editorial inference: The benchmark uses one crop size, one training budget, and a tenfold lower learning rate for the SSM models; a protocol sweep over these choices would reveal whether the ranking is stable under hyperparameter variation.
- Editorial inference: The per-sub-region results imply that a hybrid architecture — an SSM backbone with a targeted attention module for sub-regions like ET or SNFH — could combine the best of both families; the paper does not test this, but the data suggest it.
Editorial analysis
A structured set of objections, weighed in public.
Referee Report
Summary. The paper reports a unified benchmark of five 3D brain-tumor segmentation architectures—3D U-Net, SegResNet, Swin UNETR, SegMamba, and SegMambaV2—on BraTS 2023 meningioma and BraTS 2024 post-treatment glioma datasets. All models are trained from scratch with a shared MONAI-based preprocessing, augmentation, and evaluation pipeline under five-fold cross-validation, and are compared in terms of Dice, IoU, HD95, inference time, and parameter count. The main claim, stated in the Conclusion, is that the SSM architectures SegMamba and SegMambaV2 consistently achieve the best global performance on both datasets, outperforming the CNN and Transformer baselines.
Significance. If the central claim were supported, this would be a useful contribution: the paper addresses an important problem (heterogeneous evaluation protocols in medical image segmentation), provides code, evaluates two clinically distinct BraTS tasks, includes efficiency metrics alongside accuracy, and documents class imbalance. The five-fold protocol and public benchmark are strengths. However, the main claim is currently not supported as stated, because the evaluated SegMamba and SegMambaV2 implementations differ from the published architectures and were trained with different optimization hyperparameters from the baselines. The benchmark remains valuable as a reproducible comparison of the specific adapted implementations, provided the conclusions are reframed or the confounds are removed.
major comments (3)
- [§3.2.4, §3.2.5, §5] The Conclusion attributes the best results to 'SSM architectures, SegMamba and SegMambaV2,' but the experiments do not evaluate the published SegMamba and SegMambaV2. §3.2.4 states that the SegMamba implementation omits the FUE module, replaces GSC gated multiplication with addition, and uses standard convolutional decoder blocks. §3.2.5 states that SegMambaV2 approximates HS-Downsampling with a single convolution and implements ToOM via axis permutation plus 1D Mamba layers. These are material architectural differences, not cosmetic ones. The observed performance gap may reflect these modifications rather than the SSM design. To support the central claim, the authors should either evaluate the original published implementations or explicitly reframe all conclusions as applying to the adapted implementations, ideally with an ablation showing the modifications do not change relative ranki
- [§3.3, Table 2] The abstract states that all architectures are trained using 'identical ... optimization strategies,' but Table 2 shows that SegMamba and SegMambaV2 use a learning rate of 1e-5 instead of 1e-4 and additionally use gradient clipping with max norm 1. This is a direct confound: the two models that win the comparison were given different optimization settings. The paper offers no control experiment with matched learning rate and clipping for all models, nor evidence that the performance gap is insensitive to these choices. At minimum, the claim of identical optimization must be removed and the results re-interpreted; ideally, the authors should run matched-hyperparameter experiments or a sensitivity analysis.
- [Tables 3 and 4] The global Dice/IoU/HD95 results are reported as five-fold averages without standard deviations, confidence intervals, or significance tests. Some of the gaps supporting the central claim are small (e.g., 0.7559 vs 0.7533 for SegMambaV2 vs SegMamba on BraTS 2024; 0.7245 vs 0.7116 on BraTS 2023). Without variability or a paired test across folds, the statement that SSM architectures 'consistently achieved' the best performance is stronger than the evidence justifies. Report per-fold results and, if possible, a paired significance test or bootstrap confidence intervals.
minor comments (5)
- [Author affiliation] The second author's email contains a duplicated domain: 'luna.hernandez102@ulpgc.es@ulpgc.es'.
- [Figure 1 and Figure 4] The patient identifier is given as 'BraTS-MEN-00891-000' in Figure 1 and 'BraTS-MEN-00891-00' in Figure 4; please use a consistent identifier.
- [Tables 3 and 4] Use the model name consistently: 'SegMamba V2' in the table header vs 'SegMambaV2' in the text.
- [§3.2.4] The phrase 'the publicly available code differs slightly' understates the listed differences (omitted FUE module, replaced gated multiplication, changed decoder). Suggest describing these as 'substantial differences' or listing them more prominently in a limitations paragraph.
- [§4.5, Tables 7 and 8] The comparison with challenge leaders is clearly labeled as indicative, which is appropriate. However, the table caption 'Best value per column among the models evaluated in this study' is confusing because the table also includes reference methods; consider restructuring the comparison.
Circularity Check
Empirical benchmark; no derivation-level circularity, minor self-citation risk only
full rationale
The paper is an empirical benchmark: it trains five published architectures on two BraTS datasets and reports measured metrics. There is no derivation chain in which a predicted quantity is algebraically equal to, or fitted from, the inputs. The only mild self-citation risk is that the authors' own related-work papers are cited in the introduction and related work, but those citations are not used to compute any result. The central claim that SegMamba/SegMambaV2 achieve the best scores is based on measured Dice, IoU, and HD95 under the stated protocol. The measured scores are therefore not circular in the sense of being equivalent to their inputs by construction. The skeptical concern about altered implementations and different hyperparameters (omitted FUE module, addition in place of gated multiplication, approximated HS-Downsampling, lower learning rate, gradient clipping) is a validity or correctness risk, not a circularity: the results are still measured, not derived from the assumptions. The paper itself explicitly discloses these implementation differences and training deviations (Sections 3.2.4, 3.2.5, and Table 2), which strengthens transparency but does not create circularity. Thus the score is 1, reflecting only the non-load-bearing self-references in related work.
Axiom & Free-Parameter Ledger
free parameters (5)
- Learning rate for SegMamba and SegMambaV2 =
1e-5
- Gradient clipping max norm =
1
- Training crop size =
128x128x128 voxels
- Maximum epochs =
100
- Sliding-window overlap =
25%
axioms (4)
- domain assumption The annotated BraTS training cases are a valid basis for five-fold cross-validation and the resulting metrics generalize to the challenge setting.
- ad hoc to paper The adapted SegMamba and SegMambaV2 code represents the published architectures closely enough to draw conclusions about those architectures.
- standard math MONAI's Dice, IoU, and HD95 implementations measure what the paper claims.
- domain assumption The tumor sub-region labels in BraTS 2023 and BraTS 2024 are correct and consistent.
read the original abstract
Automatic brain tumor segmentation from magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) has become a fundamental task in computer-assisted diagnosis, treatment planning, and disease monitoring. Although numerous deep learning architectures have recently been proposed, objective comparisons remain challenging because published studies often employ different datasets, preprocessing strategies, training protocols, and evaluation procedures. This work presents a unified experimental benchmark for comparing representative convolutional neural networks (CNNs), Transformer-based models, and recent State Space Model (SSM) architectures under homogeneous experimental conditions. Five state-of-the-art three-dimensional segmentation models, including 3D U-Net, SegResNet, Swin UNETR, SegMamba, and SegMambaV2, are evaluated on two brain tumor segmentation datasets representing distinct clinical scenarios: intracranial meningioma segmentation (BraTS 2023) and post-treatment glioma segmentation (BraTS 2024). All architectures are trained using identical preprocessing, data augmentation, optimization strategies, and evaluation protocols to ensure a fair comparison. Performance is assessed using segmentation accuracy metrics together with computational cost indicators, including inference time and the size of each model. The results provide practical insights into the trade-offs between segmentation accuracy and computational efficiency, highlighting the suitability of different architectural paradigms for challenging three-dimensional brain tumor segmentation tasks.
Figures
Reference graph
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