REVIEW 4 major objections 6 minor 102 references
Aspects of the Black Hole Interior Volume and Entropy
T0 review · 4 major / 6 minor · reviewed 2026-08-05 · deepseek-v4-flash
Pith's one-line read Inside a black hole, entropy grows with time but trails the horizon
desk verdict A PhD thesis repackaging known CR-Zhang results, with a load-bearing proportionality claim that is not actually derived because it depends on an unfixed constant gamma; useful as a survey, not as a new research paper. read the letter →
The pith
A machine-rendered reading of the paper's core claim, the machinery that carries it, and where it could break.
The reading
What carries the argument
The maximal-hypersurface interior volume: for a spherically symmetric black hole, the volume bounded by a horizon sphere is defined as the largest proper volume of a spacelike, spherically symmetric 3-surface. Solving the geodesic equation in the auxiliary metric r^4(-f(r)*nu_dot^2 + 2*nu_dot*r_dot) gives a constant-radius maximal surface and a volume linear in advanced time. The entropy computation combines this volume with quantum-statistical counting of modes, the free energy of a thermal scalar gas, and the Hawking-temperature equilibrium; the evaporation link is the Stefan-Boltzmann law. This construction does the work of turning a geometric volume into a thermodynamic entropy and then
What would settle it
Compute the effective temperature of the massless scalar modes on the constant-radius maximal hypersurface inside a Schwarzschild black hole using a fully dynamical vacuum state appropriate to collapse rather than assuming equilibrium at the Hawking temperature. If the occupation spectrum gives a temperature different from 1/(8*pi*M), then dS_int will not equal -F(M) dS_BH, and the central proportionality fails; the same check can be done by evaluating the one-loop free energy in the interior volume and comparing its mass dependence with F(M).
Extended reading notes
Core claim
For a black hole formed in collapse, the interior volume is defined as the maximum proper volume of a spacelike spherically symmetric 3-dimensional hypersurface bounded by a sphere on the horizon. At late advanced time the maximal surface sits at a constant radius, giving an interior volume proportional to advanced time; for Schwarzschild this is 3*sqrt(3)*pi*M^2*nu. Counting scalar-field modes in this volume with WKB and phase-space methods gives an entropy proportional to that volume, and setting the mode temperature to the Hawking temperature while letting the mass decrease through the Stefan-Boltzmann law yields the differential relation dS_int = -F(M,Q) dS_BH. The same pattern is claime
Load-bearing premise
The interior scalar field is assumed to sit in equilibrium at the Hawking temperature while the hole evaporates quasi-statically as a blackbody; if the modes just inside the horizon are not at that temperature, the claimed proportionality between the two entropies fails.
Editorial extensions
If this is right
- If the interior volume grows linearly with advanced time, an evaporating black hole can keep absorbing quantum modes without saturating, giving a concrete storage place for information that Hawking radiation appears to lose.
- The proportionality dS_int = -F dS_BH with F less than one means the interior entropy rises as the horizon shrinks, so the combined entropy need not decrease; this is the proposed route toward the information paradox.
- Rotation and charge do not break the storage mechanism: the same linear growth is claimed for Kerr and Reissner-Nordstrom black holes, with the coefficient depending on mass, charge, and spin but staying below unity.
- In higher dimensions and in f(R) gravity the coefficient shrinks as the dimension or the modified-gravity parameter grows, implying that such black holes radiate their horizon entropy away faster relative to the growth of interior entropy.
- At late evaporation the interior volume and entropy remain nonzero down to Planck-scale masses, supporting the idea of a remnant carrying residual information.
Reading between the lines
- The paper assumes the interior mode temperature equals the Hawking temperature; a direct calculation of the renormalized stress-energy tensor just inside the horizon would test whether the proportionality survives without that equilibrium.
- Integrating dS_int = -F dS_BH from formation to Planck mass would give a Page-curve-like prediction for when interior entropy overtakes horizon entropy; the paper does not perform that integration.
- The analysis fixes charge and angular momentum during evaporation; allowing Q and J to vary while the hole radiates would modify F(M,Q,J) and could break the simple proportionality.
- The same counting method should apply to photon or graviton modes rather than a massless scalar; if the coefficient depends on spin, the proportionality may not be universal.
Editorial analysis
A structured set of objections, weighed in public.
Referee Report
Summary. This manuscript, a 2019 PhD thesis posted to arXiv in 2025, revisits the Christodoulou–Rovelli (CR) interior volume and Baocheng Zhang's interior entropy. It computes the CR volume for Schwarzschild, Reissner–Nordström, Kerr, and d-dimensional charged black holes, then uses quantum-statistical counting in the interior volume to obtain scalar-field entropy. The central claimed results are: (i) interior volume and entropy grow linearly with advanced time; (ii) interior entropy is proportional to Bekenstein–Hawking entropy with proportionality constant less than unity, both in the static case and during Hawking evaporation, dS_int = -F(M,Q)dS_BH; (iii) the same relation holds for f(R) black holes with a coefficient depending on the modified-gravity parameter b. A final chapter studies coexistence curves and configurational entropy of f(R)-AdS black holes. The derivations are sketched, with several steps deferred to partial appendices.
Significance. Should the proportionality result hold with a derived, parameter-free coefficient, it would provide a concrete bridge between the black-hole interior and horizon thermodynamics and would be relevant to the information-paradox literature. The paper has the merit of collecting and extending an existing line of work, and the maximal-hypersurface volume part follows the established CR construction. It also explicitly presents the WKB/statistical counting argument and compares two Hamiltonian approaches. However, as it stands the central numerical claim is not an output of the derivation: the coefficient depends on the unspecified constant γ, two displayed formulas disagree by a factor of two, and the key f(R) coefficient is withheld. The paper therefore does not currently deliver a falsifiable parameter-free prediction.
major comments (4)
- [§2.3.1, Eq. (2.44)–(2.45) and Eq. (2.2)] Eq. (2.45) gives S_int/S_BH = √3 γ/(15360π), while Eq. (2.2) gives √3 γ/(30720π); the two displayed formulas differ by a factor of 2. For a single massless scalar in four dimensions the blackbody constant is γ = 15360π in the normalization of Eq. (2.44), so Eq. (2.45) yields √3 > 1 and Eq. (2.2) yields √3/2. The claim that the proportionality constant is 'less than unity' is therefore not a derived result but an implicit constraint on γ. The statement in §2.3.4 that 'Its value doesn't affect our discussion' is incorrect; it changes the sign of the claimed inequality.
- [§2.3.3, Eq. (2.98)–(2.99)] The differential coefficient F(M,Q) is defined with γ in Eq. (2.98), but the definition after Eq. (2.99) drops γ. This makes the central relation dS_int = -F(M,Q)dS_BH ambiguous. Figure 2.5, which plots F(M,Q), cannot be used to verify the proportionality or its magnitude unless it is stated whether γ is included. The same ambiguity affects the Q=0 limit, where the evaporation-law coefficient would differ by the factor γ.
- [§4.3, Eq. (4.20)–(4.21)] The neglect of the second term in Eq. (4.20) is unjustified. The quasi-static assumption only gives dM/dv ≪ 1, but v itself is large; for the Schwarzschild-like scaling v ~ γM³ and dM/dv ~ -1/(γM²), the product v(dM/dv) is O(M), not negligible. No such bound is provided for the f(R) case. In addition, the function γ(M,Q;b) is not given; the text states 'the concrete expression is not given here'. Consequently Eq. (4.21) and Fig. 4.1 cannot be checked, and the claimed f(R) proportionality coefficient is unsupported.
- [§4.3 / §2.3.3] The central comparison assumes the interior massless scalar is in equilibrium at the Hawking temperature and that evaporation is a quasi-static blackbody process. These assumptions are asserted rather than justified. If the interior field is not at the horizon temperature, the proportionality between interior and Bekenstein–Hawking entropy fails. Because the paper's main claim is the existence of this proportionality, the conclusion is conditional on an unexamined physical assumption.
minor comments (6)
- [Throughout] 'Plank mass' should be 'Planck mass'; 'advance time' should be 'advanced time'.
- [Eq. (1.7)] The angular term is garbled ('θ sin² dϕ²'); it should be r²(dθ² + sin²θ dϕ²).
- [Appendices] The text repeatedly refers to 'See Appendix 6' (e.g., §2.3.1 and §2.3.2), but the appendices are labeled A–D and are only partial; the referenced derivations are not fully present.
- [Eqs. (2.44), (2.93), (4.17)] The constant γ in Eq. (2.44) is not tied to the Stefan–Boltzmann constant σ used in Eq. (2.93) and Eq. (4.17); the notation should be unified and the relation between γ and σ stated.
- [Chapter 5] The phase-transition/configurational-entropy chapter is disconnected from the abstract's central claim about interior volume and entropy; no link is made between the two parts of the thesis.
- [Fig. 4.1] The plot is for M=2, Q=1, R0=-12, but the formula for γ(M,Q;b) is missing, so the plot cannot be reproduced or independently checked.
Circularity Check
The '<1' interior-entropy claim is not a derived prediction: it is an implicit constraint on the free Stefan-Boltzmann constant γ, and the two displayed formulas for S_CR disagree by a factor 2.
-
fitted input called prediction
[Eq. (2.44)-(2.45) and Eq. (2.98)-(2.99), Sec. 2.3.1]
"the rate of mass loss from Schwarzschild black hole due to Hawking radiation can be written as dM/dν = −1/(γM²) ... Using ... β = 8πM, then the entropy equation becomes SCR = 3√3γM/(45×8^3) = 3√3γA/((45×8^4)π) ... the proportional relation ... dSCR = −F(M,Q)dSBH"
The factor multiplying A in Eq. (2.45) (and its factor-2 variant in Eq. (2.2)) is proportional to γ, a constant introduced as unspecified in the mass-loss law. The headline statement that the proportionality constant is 'less than unity' is therefore not an output of the derivation; it is an implicit bound on γ. The subsequent evaporation result dS_int = −F(M,Q)dS_BH inherits the same γ. Fixing γ by the blackbody normalization invoked in the same section makes the inequality marginal or reversed depending on which displayed formula is used. Thus the quantitative central claim reduces to a constraint on an input parameter rather than being a prediction.
-
other
[Eq. (2.2) vs Eq. (2.45), Sec. 2.3.1; Eq. (6.2)]
"SCR = 3√3γ/(90×8^4)π A (Eq. 2.2); SCR = 3√3γM/(45×8^3) = 3√3γA/((45×8^4)π) (Eq. 2.45)"
The two displayed formulas are presented for the same interior entropy after substituting A = 16πM^2, but they differ by a factor of 2. A central quantitative claim such as 'proportionality constant less than unity' cannot be considered a derived result when the manuscript itself gives two mutually inconsistent normalizations. The claimed inequality is therefore not robust; it depends both on the free parameter γ and on which of the paper's own formulas is selected.
full rationale
The thesis's strongest claim is that the entropy of scalar modes in the black-hole interior is proportional to the Bekenstein-Hawking entropy with a constant less than unity, both statically and during Hawking evaporation. The CR volume result V_CR = 3√3πM^2ν and the statistical entropy S = π^2V/(45β^3) are derived inside the manuscript and have independent content. However, the step from these to the area-proportional 'less than unity' result passes through dM/dν = −1/(γM^2), where γ is an unspecified input. The displayed coefficient of A is therefore proportional to γ, and the '<1' statement is not derived: it is an implicit condition on γ. The same free parameter propagates into the evaporation-law relation dS_int = −F(M,Q)dS_BH. The manuscript also displays two factor-of-2 different expressions for S_CR (Eq. 2.2 and Eq. 2.45), so the claimed numerical proportionality is not even internally unique. The d-dimensional and f(R) chapters repeat the same structural calculation; the f(R) chapter retains a free σ in Eq. (4.21), and the coefficient γ(M,Q;b) is left as an unevaluated ratio. Chapter 5 is a standard phase-transition/configurational-entropy analysis and is not part of the circular chain. Overall, the central quantitative 'prediction' reduces by construction to the normalization of the evaporation input, while the purely structural proportionality remains an algebraic consequence of the assumptions. This is partial, not total, circularity.
Assumptions & free parameters
free parameters (2)
- gamma
- b =
varied; b=1 is the Einstein limit
assumptions (5)
- domain assumption The CR definition of interior volume as the volume of the largest spherically symmetric spacelike hypersurface is a valid physical measure of black hole interior size.
- domain assumption Equilibrium statistical mechanics applies on the maximal hypersurface even though the interior is time-dependent; the proper time between adjacent maximal hypersurfaces tends to zero.
- domain assumption Hawking radiation can be treated as blackbody radiation and the evaporation as quasi-static; the interior scalar field has the Hawking temperature.
- domain assumption The f(R) black hole solutions in Eq. (4.5) and their thermodynamic quantities are valid.
- standard math WKB approximation and phase-space cell counting in (2*pi)^3 is valid in the curved interior.
Cite this review
Pith. "Pith review of Aspects of the Black Hole Interior Volume and Entropy." pith.science (2026). https://pith.science/paper/2K3E64KP
@misc{pith2026250903042,
author = {Pith},
title = {Pith review of: Aspects of the Black Hole Interior Volume and Entropy},
year = {2026},
howpublished = {\url{https://pith.science/paper/2K3E64KP}},
note = {Machine review of arXiv:2509.03042}
}
abstract
The basic and conceptual notion of this work starts from the recent investigations of Marios Christodoulou and Carlo Rovelli (CR) in their paper entitled ''How big is a black hole?''. This work is related to the black hole interior volume and the entropy by Baocheng Zhang. In CR work, a spherically symmetric Schwarzschild black hole is considered and defines the interior volume, as the volume inside a sphere $S$ is the maximal proper volume of a space-like spherically symmetric $3d$ hypersurface bounded by the sphere $S$. Using this definition, they found the interior volume of a black hole is proportional to the advanced time. This is the main characteristic of this formulation. Which means that a black hole could store a large amount of infalling information. Using this special property, one can prob the nature of Hawking radiation emitted by a black hole. They also extend their result to the charged static black hole and found a consistent result. Their numerical analysis showed that the special character of this formulation is that the volume linearly increases with advancing time. Later, the CR work is followed by Baocheng Zhang, who investigated the entropy of scalar quantum modes in the interior of the Schwarzschild Black hole. He found the entropy of scalar quantum modes in the interior of Black hole is proportional to the lack hole surface area. The proportionality constant is found to be less than unity, which means that the interior entropy is less as compared to the Bekenstein Hawking entropy (horizon entropy). Note that these analyses are only applicable for black holes with mass greater than the Planck mass. If massless than Planck's mass, then one needs to understand the uncertainty relation.
Figures
Figures from the paper (16 more)
Reference graph
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